Tuesday, July 31, 2007

Huge Flying Saucer Spotted Over Liverpool

Flying Saucer Over Liverpool
Mysterious object is a return visitor to Liverpool

By Ed Casson, Maghull and Aintree Star
ICSeftonand WestLancs

     ON the sunny afternoon of Wednesday July 25, Lee Jones of Anfield looked up from the back garden of his home and saw something which terrified and mesmerised him.

An enormous saucer-shaped craft emerged slowly from the cumulus clouds and hung in the sky.

The UFO was so large, a passing commercial airliner was dwarfed against it, leading Lee to estimate the unidentified craft’s size as over a mile in diameter.

He ran in and fetched his wife and mother-in-law, and they too saw the gigantic circular craft – the colour of ‘grey gun-metal’ – hanging in the summer sky as clouds drifted over its surface, obscuring the mysterious visitor.

After about fifteen minutes of peeping out from the clouds, the UFO was nowhere to be seen.

Had something its size taken off at high speed, a sonic bang would have rocked Merseyside, but no such boom was reported.

Lee’s account is just one of many reports I have received, describing what might be one and the same gargantuan UFO.

Earlier this year in January, a Mr Fraser of Childwall was taking a nightly stroll down Menlove Avenue when he noticed several lights in the sky.

Mr Fraser quickly realised these pinpoints of light were on some darker circular object of an enormous size.

The huge disc-shaped UFO moved slowly from the direction of Halewood across the sky, and Mr Fraser and a female passer-by watched it head towards Netherley.

That same week, a geometric formation of lights was seen over Huyton, Page Moss, Dovecot and Broadgreen.

One witness, a pizza-delivery man, said he saw a ‘giant round object in the sky with a mixture of coloured lights’ which he estimated to be about the size of the metropolitan cathedral.

The person he delivered the pizza to also saw this object and tried to video it.

Throughout June, this same colossal UFO seems to have been seen by people in the Dingle, Aigburth, Grassendale and Hunt’s Cross, and all these sightings were of a night.

A retired local policeman named Colin and an aviation expert from Runcorn named Greg have joined forces to get to the bottom of the giant UFO sightings, and initially believed the reports were misidentifications of the planet Venus, misinterpretations of aircraft landing and navigation lights and so on, but now they accept that these explanations do not pan out.

Electronics enthusiast Greg has built his very own radar unit using satellite dishes, and has even obtained data on the mysterious mammoth UFO.

He has ascertained that it is almost a mile in length and hovers at an altitude of around 7,000 feet.

His colleague Colin was a confirmed sceptic until he saw the UFO during a ‘skywatch’ vigil with five other people at Tarbock Green.

‘It blocked out the stars when it came into view at 3am,’ says Colin.

Roswell Information Continues After 60 Years

Roswell Information Continues
By Dennis G Balthaser
© 08-01-07

     The 60th anniversary of the Roswell Incident is now history and was a gigantic improvement over those in recent years, partially due to the number of credible researchers that were in Roswell for the Festival sharing their knowledge not only about the Roswell Incident, but various other topics related to Ufology. The attendance for this year’s 4-day event was comparable to the 50th anniversary in 1997, when 40,000 visitors attended. With the city of Roswell taking over the Festival this year, the Mayor’s desire to have a family oriented celebration along with serious UFO researchers appears to have been a success.

New information about the Roswell Incident was revealed in the form of three new books that were published and made available in conjunction with the event. Perhaps those books will have an impact on the fact that we continue to be lied to by the military and our government about what happened here in 1947, and I believe the pressure is mounting on them to come clean. (Wishful thinking on my part? ---probably so, but I remain optimistic.)

Jesse Marcel Jr., who I first met in 1997, remains as one of the most credible first-hand witnesses, still alive that I’ve ever known. His own 30 + year military background, honesty and sincerity in addition to his profession’s as a medical doctor, helicopter pilot, etc., speak volumes about him. Now after all these years, Jesse has decided to go public in book form to fulfill a request by his father, before he passed away, revealing his story about his own involvement in 1947 as the 11 year son of then Intelligence officer of the 509th bomb wing, Major Jesse Marcel. Jesse Jr. not only shares his own thoughts and factual knowledge, but his wife does also, making the book a personal account of a family that has dealt with the Roswell Incident first hand these 60 years. The book entitled “the Roswell Legacy” should be required reading for anyone wanting information about the Roswell Incident from a first-hand account.

Walter Haut (B)Don Schmitt and Tom Carey released their new book “Witness to Roswell” also. These two long time researchers present volumes of new witness testimony and explain in detail how through those witnesses, the cover-up was probably accomplished. At the end of the book Public Information Officer at Roswell Army Airfield in 1947, Walter Haut’s recently released affidavit signed by him in 2002 is included. Having myself interviewed Walter on videotape with Wendy Connors 2 year’s prior in 2000; there are many questions about the recent affidavit and one supposedly done by Haut in 1993. As with most things pertaining to the Roswell Incident, it will take time and more research to resolve. More information is needed about this recently released affidavit pertaining to when it was actually written, by whom and under what conditions.

Thirdly was a book by Stanton Friedman and Kathleen Marden entitled, “Captured: The Betty and Barney Hill UFO Experience”. Kathleen is Betty Hill’s niece and is now sharing never before released information about her aunt and uncle’s experience. In this editorial, a sketch on page 289 of this book will be discussed along with information that has been available from both Jesse Marcel Jr. and his Dad, Major Jesse Marcel for sometime, to present a possibility of a connection between them.

Marcel & Hill Drawings
Enter John DeSalvo PhD, Director of the Great Pyramid of Giza Research Association of which I have been a member of the advisory board for several years. John’s background is as diverse as they come with extensive research into the pyramids of course, as well as the Shroud of Turin. John is a former college professor and administrator, and for many years, has had an interest in Ufology.

A week after this years Roswell Festival, Dr. DeSalvo contacted me, and said he was looking through the Betty and Barney Hill book when he noticed on page 289 that Betty had seen a book during her abduction which had what she referred to as alien writing in it, which basically amounted to various symbols. John was familiar with the sketch Lt. Col. Marcel (retired), had drawn for Linda Corley, PhD, in her copyrighted interview with Marcel in 1981, prior to his death. After obtaining a copy of Ms Corley’s book and obtaining her permission, I requested that certain members of the Pyramid Association look at those symbols drawn by Major Marcel to see if there was a similarity to Egyptian hieroglyphics as has often been mentioned. The board members advised me that they didn’t see any resemblance.

Dr. DeSalvo also being an authority on languages felt there was possibly a similarity between what Major Marcel had drawn in his last interview with LindaCorley and those shown in the Betty and Barney Hill book. (The drawing done by Jesse Marcel Jr. as he remembered the symbols years later, do not appear to be similar to those of Betty Hill or his Dads sketch, but Jesse deserves credit for what he remembered when he did his sketch of the symbols). All sketches of “alien writing” should be analyzed at some point.

Marcel Drawing
This possible similarity in the symbols between Betty Hills drawing and Major Marcel may well be a “stab in the dark”, however something that should be considered for future research, through computer analysis or other high-tech methods.

Most people familiar with the Roswell Incident remember that Col. Weaver in the Air Force report in 1994 stated that the pictures in General Ramey’s office had been analyzed by a National Laboratory (probably CIA or NSA), and nothing was gained from that analysis, while individual researchers with less technical equipment were able to read parts of the Ramey message. Hopefully someone will be willing to at least look at the symbols, and possibly do more research, as we cannot depend on the government to undertake such a project.

Original civilian Roswell researcher Stanton Friedman and Jesse Marcel Jr. joined Dr. DeSalvo on a recent Jeff Rense “Sightings on the Radio” show to discuss the possibility of the symbols being similar. You can listen to the show, or contact Dr. DeSalvo at the www.gizapyramid.com web site.

I’m not saying there is a similarity in the sketches, but rather suggesting that the possibility of a similarity be looked into further. After 60 years, information is still coming forward pertaining to the Roswell Incident, and who knows what that information might produce.

Monday, July 30, 2007

Britain's MoD Received Over 250 UFO Reports During 2005-2006

MoD UFO Files Data Base
Do UFOs really exist?

Scotland On Sunday

     IT'S the weird and wonderful place where the men in grey suits from Whitehall meet the little green men from Mars.

The Ministry of Defence has for the first time opened its real-life 'X Files', detailing how its experts have examined photographs of UFOs hovering over the UK.

While the images range from the baffling to the risible, there is no doubting the seriousness that officials reserve for the issue of extraterrestrial life.

Correspondence between the MoD and members of the public who report sightings of strange objects reveals that Whitehall mandarins remain "totally open-minded" about the existence of UFOs.

The letters - obtained by Scotland on Sunday through the Freedom of Information Act - confirm that the MoD has a procedure of scrambling fighter planes to confront any unidentified craft or object that enters UK airspace.

However, there are hints that at least some strange objects seen in the sky are of a distinctly terrestrial provenance.

In one letter, officials admit that military helicopters carry out low-flying combat training missions across Britain, and apologise for any alarm they may have caused.

The MoD has confirmed it receives more than 100 reports of UFO sightings every year, many of which come from Scotland.

Last year alone, the Ministry was sent five sets of photographs and videos purporting to show UFO activity.

One was sent by a concerned resident who last March reported seeing silent superfast "triangular craft" and other strange objects in the skies above the south of England.

He enclosed a picture that appears to show a ball of light moving at speed across the sky with an illuminated trail in its wake.

A lengthy official response from the MoD's Directorate of Air Staff is at pains to reassure the individual.

It states: "We remain totally open-minded, but to date we know of no evidence which substantiates the existence of these alleged phenomena.

"The MoD examines any reports of unidentified flying objects it receives, solely to establish whether what was seen might have some defence significance; namely whether there is any evidence that the UK's airspace might have been compromised by hostile or unauthorised air activity."

The letter claims the Ministry could not justify spending public money on being an "aerial identification service", but stresses that every precaution is taken to protect the integrity of UK airspace.

It adds: "I should inform you that low-flying training takes place throughout the UK.

"In the event of conflict, helicopters are vulnerable to ground fire, and one of the vital skills that must be acquired by pilots is flying as closely as possible to the nap of the earth so that the aircraft is shielded and camouflaged by the features of the terrain.

"This type of training is spread as thinly as possible throughout the UK, so as not to concentrate activity over one area. I am sorry if this training has caused disturbance to you."

The MoD also received a succession of images of objects in the sky above Portsmouth harbour last July.

And in one decidedly eccentric letter last May, a concerned citizen warns the MoD that she and her husband are being menaced by invisible craft, the grey alien inhabitants of which have already abducted her in the past to "extract her DNA".

To support her case, she enclosed a photograph of an all-too-visible object (possibly a Frisbee or a satellite dish) "hovering" over a church.

In an impeccably polite response, MoD officials come to the sober conclusion that: "With regard to your particular observations, we are satisfied that there is no corroborating evidence to suggest that the UK's airspace has been breached by unauthorised aircraft."

In another response to an individual who claimed to have provided film evidence of UFO activity over the Clyde in Glasgow last year, an official states frankly: "I have viewed your video and I am content that it contains nothing of defence concern."

The MoD confirmed that in 2006 it received more than 100 reports of UFO sightings, including 12 from Scotland.

The previous year around 150 sightings were reported, with again a dozen coming from north of the Border. These included six reported sightings on the same day (September 14, 2005) in Fife and Perthshire of "bright white lights" in the sky.

The unidentified objects were sighted in Lochgelly, Glenrothes, Crieff, Letham, Blairgowrie and Kinross.

Nick Pope, who headed the MoD's UFO Project between 1991 and 1994, confirmed that reported sightings were taken extremely seriously.

"The MoD wants to know everything flying in the UK's air-defence range and investigate all sightings," he said.

Pope revealed that 95% of UFO reports turned out to either have obvious explanations or to be so vague that any investigation was impossible.

"The remaining 5% of cases were pretty interesting and remained unexplained even after a very thorough explanation. It doesn't prove that these objects were extraterrestrial, but you can't rule any option out."

The former MoD investigator even claimed that officials tried to copy the advanced technology of unidentified vehicles.

"A number of reports were of silent triangular aircraft travelling at considerable speed," he said. "These and some other reports suggested some sort of propulsion system we would be extremely interested in.

"A lot of the serious UFO investigation was aimed at trying to ascertain things such as the aerodynamics of some of the UFOs, the avionics and the propulsion systems.

"We wanted to know if there was anything that we might learn from, regardless of what the source of these UFOs is."

UFOs Video Taped in Wrexham

UFO Over Wrexham 7-25-07 (A)
UFO Over Wrexham 7-25-07 (B)
By Flintshire Standard

A COUPLE were mesmerised as seven red lights flew silently and at great speed above their house in the early hours of the morning.
     It was just after midnight when Leigh Williams, 31, went out to the back of his house on Townsend Avenue for a cigarette.

He said he saw some strange lights in the sky and ran inside to get his wife, Lynn, 32.

She said: "I thought he was taking the mick and I told him I was tired and to leave me alone. He said 'if you don't believe me look out there'.

There were seven lights flying fast over the house. Two of them were flying round each other. They were flying very close together, closer than planes. They were going so fast I couldn't focus on them.

"I ran inside and got my camcorder. I thought they could be helicopters but when I zoomed in I was scared to death. They were glowing red in the middle. I'm a very logical person. We are not into the paranormal at all. I thought people would think we were barmy if we said we saw UFOs."

Although the time on the video shows the objects being captured at 11.16pm, the film was actually taken at 12.16am – the camcorder clock had not been re-set to British Summer Time.

"They weren't like anything I have seen before. For the lights to be so low there had to be some noise if they were planes. If someone can tell me what they were, I will sleep better at night.

"This has really put me off sitting out the back at night. You think you know everything about the world but that was a mystery to me."

The first to the see objects was Leigh. He said: "I haven't got a clue what they were. It was a bit strange. I hadn't seen anything like that before.

"There was no noise whatsoever. Surely if they were aircraft there would have been lots of noise. My wife was panicking. We just want to know what it was. When they went over it happened so quick. They moved very smoothly and were glowing."

A spokesman for North Wales Police confirmed they received a call at the same time from another resident in Borras who said they has seen six flying orange orbs.

One theory being circulated in the area is the weird lights were in fact Chinese lanterns, usually tied together and released on the wind and can reach high speeds if conditions are right.

Thursday, July 26, 2007

Costa Rican Man Captures Amazing Images of UFO on Cell Phone Camera!

UFO Over Tres Rios 6-24-07 (BB)
UFO Over Tres Rios 6-24-07 (AA)
Video aficionado catches images of supposed UFO

By Luis Diego Quirós
Adaptación Teletica.com

     Scientists do not deny nor confirm that the images of a video aficionado are those of an extraterrestrial ship

Just like any other day, Ángel Brenes left his work in la Subestación Eléctrica de Tres Ríos.

But June 24th would be different. That night he would catch a video with his cellular telephone which would something more then electrical discharges.

Although Ángel assures us that the light moved so that he cannot explain it, consequently he says it’s an Unidentified Flying Object, a UFO.

For Oscar Sierra, an expert in the subject UFOs, it is necessary to do additional analysis on the video; however, it presents/displays characteristics that would make it real.

Physicist José Alberto Villalobos thinks differently; he assures us that it is indeed a UFO because it can’t be identified, but can’t say whether it’s an extraterrestrial ship.

The video is similar to photography taken in France for some years.

Similarly, a craftsman from Aguas Zarcas captured an image in 2006 near the volcano Arenal.

Although there are no recognized tests officially; however, the students of Ufology assure us that every day hundreds of extraterrestrial visit our planet.

Wednesday, July 25, 2007

First Contactee Convention

By Long Beach Independent
Monday April 5, 1954

- click on images to enlarge -

First Contactee Convention Mon - 4-5-1954

Flying Saucer Reports Rise in Mexico

By The Galveston Daily News
Thursday March 9, 1950

- click on images to enlarge -

Flying Saucer Reports Rise in Mexico
See Also:

Flying Saucer: Midget Pilot Reported Landing in Mexico

The 'Aztec Incident' Revisited:



UFO Photographed at High Altitude

UFO Photograph By McCune

Camera captures unknown object at 37,000 feet

By Michael Futch
The FayObserver

     David McCune just wants to know what’s in the digital photograph that he shot while flying at 37,000 feet over the southern region of the country on a hot July afternoon.

He’s bewildered.

He can’t help but wonder if it’s a UFO. No matter how much skepticism he provokes.

Even Peter Davenport, the director of the National UFO Reporting Center in Washington state, has doubts.

“I actually sent this to the UFO place,” McCune said, “and he thought it was a fly. A fly! But I would like to know what it was from curiosity.”

McCune, who is 53, owns McCune Technology, a steel fabrication business in the Cumberland County Industrial Center.

Tuesday morning, when a couple of visitors entered the business, McCune quipped, “This is an alien abduction.”

And while acknowledging that he enjoys old episodes of “The Twilight Zone,” McCune said he has never been one to dwell on science fiction.

“There’s no crazy thought on this,” he said, “because I took an image at 37,000 feet, and the spherical shape I saw in the image was in there.”

On July 15, McCune was en route to Kansas City, Mo., from Atlanta for the N.C. Commission on Workforce Development. While in the air, he randomly snapped 20-odd images of some cool-looking cumulus cloud formations with a 10 megapixel Canon digital camera.

McCune figures that he may have been flying over Arkansas at the time he clicked the picture that has left him scratching his head.

Later, his son, David McCune Jr., was bringing up the images on a computer for the first time when he noticed that his father had captured something unusual with that $1,000 camera.

“I never saw it when I was taking pictures,” the elder McCune said. “I think what it is — something that the human eye could not see yet the camera could. It picked it up. So when you start looking at it, we see the shape. My son, who is real skeptical about stuff like this, was real amazed that some of it is in the cloud and some of it is out of the cloud. So it has volume.”

David McCune Jr., who oversees the company’s day-to-day operations, said, “I don’t know what it is. It’s something . If it wasn’t something, it wouldn’t go behind the cloud.”

His father estimates that the disc-shaped — if very wispy — image, which has a dark center point, is maybe 1,000 feet in diameter. McCune’s company laser cuts steel, so he knows a thing or two about measurements.

McCune has sent the picture to a friend who works for NASA. He hasn’t heard back, he said.

“I’m curious to find out what it is,” he said. “I’m not saying what it is.”

But he can’t help but wonder.

Dozens Spill into Streets To Witness UFO Spectacle

UFOs Over Warwickshire
Town centre brought to a halt by UFOs

By Metro.co.uk

     More than 100 people had a close encounter of the X-Files kind when they saw five unexplained flying objects hovering over a town centre.

Dozens of people spilled out of a pub to watch the spectacle – with one likening it to the Hollywood sci-fi blockbuster Independence Day.

The UFOs lit up the otherwise clear night's sky above William Shakespeare's birthplace of Stratford-upon- Avon in Warwickshire.

Tom Hawkes, 30, took pictures from outside the One Elm pub.

He said: 'Three had formed a triangular shape and one was to the right.

Then another one came hurtling towards the rest at what looked like a very fast speed.

'But as it neared them it suddenly slowed and stopped altogether.

'The objects were there for about half an hour. It was very eerie because they didn't make any sound and they stayed still before moving slowly beyond the horizon.

'It was the most extraordinary thing I've ever seen and the way in which everyone gathered in the street to watch them reminded me of a scene from Independence Day.'

Chef Kern Griffiths, 26, said: 'I saw five lights. We all thought they were hot-air balloons at first because the glowing spheres looked like a burst of flames.

'But I couldn't see any outline of the balloon itself and they were travelling far too fast. They were unlike any aircraft I've seen.'

Military chiefs and airports denied responsibility for the lights, which appeared on Saturday.

Hillary Potter, from the British Earth Aerial Mystery Society, said it was rare for such phenomena to be witnessed by so many people.

'Such incidents have been on the increase recently,' she added. 'There are reports at the moment coming in from all over the country.'

Author Says UFO-Air Force Dogfight Ended in Flatwoods

Pilot Chasing UFO

     BECKLEY -- Sci-fi buffs flocked to a fantasy film in 1984 bearing a title prediction that 2010 would be the year earthlings make contact with aliens.

Actually, contact has come, and it was less than friendly, says one UFO researcher.

Three decades earlier, in fact, back in 1952, just five years after the famed Roswell, New Mexico incident, the American military engaged a convoy of alien aircraft with orders to destroy them in a pitched air battle right off the Atlantic Coast, says Frank Feschino, author of "The Flatwoods Monster,'' a phenomenon that rocked a tiny West Virginia town that year.

An illustrator and writer, Feschino has produced a follow-up book, this one titled "Shoot Them Down,'' an effort produced after years of painstaking research of the U.S. Air Force's once-classified files on unidentified flying saucers and digesting countless magazine articles on the matter.

His years of exhaustive study have convinced Feschino that American jet fighters did indeed make contact -- at the point of their guns.

"Shoot Them Down'' draws its name from orders Feschino says President Truman gave military commanders while an American public was growing increasingly jittery over coast-to-coast UFO sightings.

Two years earlier, Truman had remarked at a news conference, "I can assure you that flying saucers, given that they exist, are not constructed by any power on earth.''

"There are tons of documents right there, intelligence reports, talking about pilots chasing these things, going after them,'' Feschino said, citing the once-hidden reports on the Air Force's so-called Project Blue Book.

"That's when it hit the fan, and the government stepped up. That is when they had to simmer the whole country down. The whole country was in an uproar. Everybody was panicking. The job of the government is to keep things under control, and they couldn't let the country panic.''

UFOs were buzzing the entire country that year, "and a good chunk of them were over military installations, and power plants, like Oak Ridge,'' the author says.

Feschino pulls his theory largely from the writings of Air Force Capt. Edward Ruppelt, a decorated World War II veteran, recalled to duty when hostilities erupted in Korea.

Roswell might stand out as the mother of all UFO stories, but 1952 was the most prolific year by far for aircraft sightings -- by one account, some 30,000 alone in the United States, many of them reported in local newspapers around the country.

Craft ranged from discs to round balls to elongated, cigar-shaped ships, the Port Orange, Fla., resident said.

"Capt. Ruppelt was dropping clues throughout his book,'' Feschino said. "And that's the premise of my book. During that time of 1952 we had the highest amount of sightings.''

In a book he wrote, Ruppelt said "other assorted historians have pointed out that normally the UFOs are peaceful,'' but he alluded to a chase in which one of two pilots engaging unidentified aircraft perished.

"They just weren't ready to be observed closely,'' he wrote.

"If the Air Force hadn't slapped down the security lid, these writers might not have reached this conclusion (about peaceful aliens). There have been other and more lurid duels of death. That's what everybody missed.''

Feschino flatly says the Air Force took on alien aircraft just off the coast with orders to destroy them in a move to pacify a public growing ever restless over bizarre sightings. In the battle, apparently one craft hobbled back inland, resting on a knoll in a West Virginia community known as Flatwoods. And it was there on Sept. 12 a group of boys, accompanied by some adults, scampered up the hillside and saw a metallic, 12-foot object emitting a sulfuric odor. Locals dubbed it "the Flatwoods Monster.''

"I have no idea who they were,'' Feschino said.

Based on his interviews with some 200 residents of Flatwoods, however, the author believes the aliens remain interested in rural West Virginia.

"There are people in West Virginia who have been seeing UFOs for the past 50 years, and there are key locations where they are being seen -- Wheeling, Huntington, and quite a few south of Charleston, around Cabin Creek, even down in the Beckley area,'' he said.

Feschino is a headliner for a Sept. 7-8 UFO summit in Charleston, organized by promoter Larry Bailey. Joining him will be Freddie May, a witness to the Flatwoods incident, and nuclear physicist Stanton Friedman, considered the leading UFO researcher in the world. Friedman has appeared on numerous cable TV shows with his belief that extraterrestrials are frequent flyers to planet Earth.

At the two-day gathering, Feschino plans to sell his new book, featuring a special, limited edition cover for West Virginia consumers.

Tuesday, July 24, 2007

New Revelations On Haut Affidavit

By Frank Warren
The UFO Chronicles

Schmitt Reveals Details of Haut Affidavit

     With the recent publication of, Witness to Roswell, co-authored by researchers, Donald Schmitt and Tom Carey much attention is being given to the previously unknown sealed affidavit that was -signed- by former Lt. Walter Haut, base public information officer (PIO) of the then Roswell Army Air Field. (RAAF 1947) A copy of the affidavit is printed in toto within the pages of the book.

Walter of course was tasked to write the press release which announced to the world that the “RAAF Captures Flying Saucer On A Ranch Near Roswell.”

The affidavit which apparently was to be held until Walter’s death, curiously was not released at that time, but rather held until Schmitt & Carey’s book was complete, and it’s release coincided with the 60th anniversary of the Roswell Incident. (This past July).

One needn’t be a rocket scientist to understand the timing in regards to releasing a book (another) about the Roswell crash at the 60th anniversary given all the media attention etc., however, I personally find it curious why the affidavit was held back.

It certainly gives the book more punch; however, the significance of the statements contained therein is unquestionably more valuable then increased book sales!

For those not paying attention, the affidavit is a reversal of Walter’s lifelong public statements in regards to the depth of his involvement with the Roswell flying saucer crash and its occupants.

Although Walter has always maintained an other worldly explanation for the debris, and has been supportive of the anecdotal evidence in regards to bodies etc., he has always denied (publicly), having seen any wreckage, bodies and or having gone to the crash site!

With the release of the book, and more specifically the affidavit within, a mild dissonance is undulating amongst Ufologists. To be clear, the layperson might argue the crux of Walter’s declaration, i.e., “an alien craft and it’s occupants,” and then post cover-up; however, the issue amongst researchers is not the core content but what is on it’s fringes.

In 2000 esteemed Ufologists Wendy Connors and Dennis Balthaser interviewed Walter, and recorded it on video tape; it was done on the same precept as the recently released affidavit; that is, it was to be released posthumously in order for Walter to talk openly and freely. (Which was honored).

Having watched the video interview a number of times (with pen in hand) the possibility arose, in my view, that Walter may have been exhibiting signs of some form of dementia; in that he couldn’t remember where he did his basic training; he couldn’t remember where he was stationed after the war; he couldn’t remember certain words; he often repeated himself, as well as contradicted himself, one time within a few sentences, and didn’t seem to be cognizant of it.

The severity of his “memory problems” has been contentious; however, for those who have watched the interview–most (if not all) agree it was evident to some extent.

That said, when I read the affidavit—this clear, concise, meticulously written document, inclusive of precise dates and times etc., it gave me great pause (to be polite), as the man that I saw in the video, (two years prior) didn’t seem capable of crafting such an elucidation.

I was certainly curious to know just how the affidavit was prepared; my prurience was satisfied yesterday with Don Schmitt’s admission that Walter did not write the affidavit!

In a recent interview with co-hosts, Gene Steinberg and David Biedny of the Paracast Show (an internet podcast production on the paranormal) the Roswell researcher, and co-author of “Witness To Roswell” came clean on the Walter Haut affidavit.

Schmitt related that through his research he became aware of just how close Haut and base commander Colonel William Butch Blanchard became, and pondered the notion of Haut being left out in the cold in regards to the information vis-à-vis the Roswell Incident.

On that premise Schmitt would often question Haut regarding any knowledge he may have.

Haut Didn't Pen Affidavit Himself

Schmitt states:
It was 3 years before Walter died. And he actually trickled information to us, on and off through the years, but he was quite clear that he was very sensitive to not only his security oath, but as though he was honoring someone else’s request to him, and it was quite clear as we demonstrated in the book, that he was honoring the 'old man,' as he called him, Colonel Blanchard . . . that Blanchard asked him not to say another word about this, and he was doing just that.

So we had to come up with a venue, a manner by which he could present the information, tell us what had happened to the best of his ability, without betraying that trust, that bond that he had with Blanchard. And it was suggested to us by an attorney that a ‘sealed statement’ (emphasis added) might provide that opportunity, and that’s what we’ve done, and ‘it was prepared, it was based on things that Walter told us in confidence for a number of years’ (emphasis added) leading up to that time he was ready to do it, his doctor, had given us a clear go ahead, that he mentally was totally competent . . ..
Schmitt goes on to reiterate that Walter read the document a number of times and then signed it with three other witnesses present.

Some have suggested that Walter’s “memory problems” were nothing but a ruse, in keeping the party line, i.e., not publicly breaking his security oath, or any promise to Colonel Blanchard; I would suggest to those folks, to view the video interview of 2000; however, if there weren’t any mental difficulties, and given the guidelines of the affidavit, that is a posthumous release, then the question would be, “why didn’t Walter pen the document himself?” Opposed to it being “prepared, based on things that Walter told Schmitt (presumably) in confidence for a number of years?”

Walter not penning the affidavit himself comes to no surprise to me; however it is important to point out that assuming he was in sound mind, and apparently according to Schmitt, it was deemed necessary to have a doctor “confirm that” (a wise move in these matters of grave circumstance in my view), the affidavit, from a legal standpoint, carries the same weight as if it were penned by his own hand.

Monday, July 23, 2007

Captured! Book Revisits Hill Family UFO Story

Barney & Betty Hill
Foster's Online

     It was supposed to be their long-anticipated honeymoon — a time Betty and Barney Hill would never forget.

But by the time the Portsmouth couple got home from the White Mountains on an early morning in 1961, they were missing two hours from their memories, they said.

What they did claim to remember — bright lights and beeping sounds, a flying saucer and a crew of aliens who made Barney Hill feel as though he were about to be captured — would change the rest of their lives.

Their story became the nation's first widely known account of a forcible alien abduction and has been the subject of several books. Barney and Betty Hill died in 1969 and 2004, respectively, and now the Hills' niece, Kathy Marden of Stratham, who was close to the couple and became trustee of their estate, has published a new book about their experiences.

Marden, a retired sociologist and educator, cowrote the book, "Captured! The Betty and Barney Hill UFO Experience," with Stanton Friedman, a nuclear physicist who studies ufology.

Barney Hill was a practical man, Marden said.

"Now do you believe in flying saucers?" Betty Hill asked him after their encounter in Lincoln, according to Marden.

"Of course not. Don't be ridiculous," was Barney Hill's reply.

When the Hills spoke to her about what they saw that night, it was the first time Marden had heard of flying saucers or thought about life on other planets. She said she later learned, however, that her mother had seen a UFO herself a few years earlier.

Marden ran outside with the rest of her family to look at the Hill's car after the spacecraft allegedly had hovered above it. There were small, round polished spots that would not rub off.

"It's really still a mystery," Marden said. "In terms of explaining what caused that, we don't know."

Marden said her book fills in some blanks still left after several other books have analyzed the incident. For instance, she said, when John Fuller wrote "The Interrupted Journey" five years after the event, it was incomplete and left space for questions from skeptics.

Wednesday, July 18, 2007

Costa Rica: A UFO Over Tres Rios

UFO Over Tres Rios Costa Rica
Inexplicata Logo
By Jeison Granados
"La Teja"

     "I was working on a top floor when I saw something that looked like a star. I was very surprised because only a powerful light could be seen. That's when I started recording with the cellphone because the event was very intriguing. When I saw the video, I was startled at what I'd recorded, since it was a flying saucer, no more, no less."

This is how Angel Brenes describes how he recorded the unidentified flying object (UFO) that appeared over Tres Rios on Sunday, June 24, 2007

Angel is a security guard at the local ICE facility, particularly at the "Quebrada del Fierro" plant, where there are many antennas present and other co-workers had reported seeing strange things.

"Since it's an open field, I think the UFOs come over to siphon off electricity," he said.

The worker said that he didn't believe in such things. "I can tell you that I wasn't scared because I didn't believe in such things, but after seeing this, I can tell all non-believers that we are a country chosen by extraterrestrials," said the guard, who is still astonished by his experience.

Sightings in this country are very common, especially in the San Carlos region, due to the presence of the Arenal Volcano.

The Norwegian UFO Mystery Solved?

Ball-Lightning 2
By The Norway Post

     The so-called Hessdalen lights have been seen ever since the 1940's and have since 1984 been monitored by volunteers.

Hessdalen is a small valley in the central part of Norway. At the end of 1981 through 1984, residents of the Valley became concerned and alarmed about strange, unexplained lights that appeared at many locations throughout the Valley. Hundreds of lights were observed. At the peak of activity there were about 20 reports a week.

Project Hessdalen was established in the summer of 1983. A field investigation was carried out between 21st of January and 26th of February 1984. Fifty-three light observations were made during the field investigation.

An automatic measurement station was put up in Hessdalen in August 1998.

According to the scientists, it is now clear that the phenomen is not UFO-related, but are luminous balls containing some form of energy.

- We have pictures which show the optical spectre, and can therefore determine which elements they are made of, says researcher Erling Strand of the Oestfold College.

However, he says much work remains before he is ready to give the final answer.


UPDATE: MY UFO EXPERIENCE: Family Spots V-Shaped UFO Over Cedar Mountain

Phoenix UFO 2
Reader Submitted Report

     Pretty close depiction Frank ,but it was lower, buzzing closer, faster over our heads. Hardly any pine trees in that area, mostly aspens.

A couple of days later, I called my sister in Cedar City, Utah, ( we live about 50 miles south). I started out saying, " Mxxx, you are not going to believe what I am about to tell you but it is the truth." Before I could say anything else, she said: "You must have seen the flying saucer Jxxx watched for an hour last night out west of Cedar City." Of course I told her our story ( I'm not sharing this around our neighborhood. Most people would question our sanity). However, we are believers. What is going on? Any ideas?

Can you imagine my shock! Jxxx, my brother-in-law, had watched something which presented itself as massive. bright lights hoovering, stationary. He watched "it" for about an hour then stepped back in the house to call anotther family member to see it. When he returned a couple of minutes later, "it" was gone.

Hmm! Could that have been the mother ship?

Have a great day. Thanks for responding to my account.

The Roswell Legacy
By Jesse Marcel Jr.

Reviewed By Frank Warren
© 7-18-07

     As Jesse points out in his recently released book, The Roswell Legacy, “there have been many books written about ‘the Roswell Incident,’ along with a seemingly endless stream of documentaries, movies and editorial pieces” etc. We’ve certainly been reminded of this fact with all the hoopla surrounding the 60th anniversary of the event, and the festival just held at Roswell.

That being the case . . . what more could be offered? What could be said, that hasn’t been rehashed over and over again? Having just finished the book last night, I can say with great enthusiasm, that not only has Jesse revealed “fresh data,” he presents it in a most “palatable fashion.”

Jesse’s “laid back style” which is evident on camera, certainly comes through on the page. Now this isn’t to say that he “dulls the reader,” quite the opposite in fact, he makes you comfortable, as if we’re having a personal chat.

I found Jesse’s tome to be many things rolled into one; much more then a story about “Flying Saucers, aliens and a government cover-up”; it was a “tribute’ to his father to which his (Jesse Jr.) love and respect was most evident! It was also a tribute to an “American patriot” (Jesse Sr.) and quite frankly I was often moved by his “shared feelings.”

The book was also an exposé of the “Marcel family,” often times very personal; one might think that Jesse needn’t “go there,” but as he points out the “Roswell Incident” had a rippling effect for all those called “Marcel.” I thought this took a lot of guts; moreover, it certainly was a vital component in telling his story.

For the “Ufologist” and or “Roswell researcher,” he doesn’t disappoint there either. He recaps the Roswell events, and his involvement; however, he also provides much evidence in support of the truth of the matter, that he became cognizant of so long ago. With this ammunition provided, he effortlessly quashes the “debunker conjecture” and gives the reader a clear conspectus of what took place over 60 years ago in New Mexico.

Along with covering some familiar ground, he also divulges some “new” and very “gripping information”; some readers may in fact find these admissions unsettling. I was not previous aware of these facts, and I must confess I was captivated by those pages! These revelations will undoubtedly re-ignite “Roswell Research!”

Something I felt unique, and ending up very essential to the book, was a chapter penned by Jesse’s wife “Linda.” In it she gives her perspective, having worked for, then marrying a man, raising a family etc., of someone who is smack dab in the middle of the UFO controversy.

Her views give the reader, an alternative account of their life together, as well as the effect that Ufology has had on her and the Marcel family. Her writing style is like that of Jesse’s and one can imagine sitting in her kitchen having a cup of coffee.

At the end of the book, Jesse shares his views on “life in the universe,” as well as the motivations for the government withholding and covering up information pertaining to the “UFO phenomenon” and it’s source. By this time, the reader has discovered that “Jesse Marcel Jr.” isn’t some “country boy” living up in Montana, wearing a tinfoil hat! He’s a compassionate, intelligent, articulate, patriotic individual!

Finally, most of the a fore mentioned attributes that Jesse holds were mutual between he and his father; in fact I’m sure Jesse Jr. would credit his parents, in particular his father for instilling these values into him. The other admirable trait, is they were/are both “men of their word”; to that end, Jesse made a promise to his father shortly before he died over 20 years ago—this book, this chronicle of events, is a fulfillment and culmination of that promise! Bravo Jesse!

Tuesday, July 17, 2007

Stanton Friedman & Jesse Marcel Jr. on Today Show

Stan & Jesse On The Today Show

By Frank Warren
© 7-17-07

Noted Ufologist, Stanton Friedman, and Eye Witness To The Roswell Wreckage, Dr Jesse Marcel Jr. Appeared On The Today This Morning.

     This morning the “Today Show” joined the bandwagon and did a short segment on the “60th Anniversary of The Roswell Incident.” Although NBC Historian Michael Beschloss, who narrated the piece, showed his ignorance, it was tame in comparison to the “twaddle” that has been aired as of late (i.e., the Larry King Show, as well as Nightline).

After the introduction, and a brief synopsis of the Roswell events and cover-up, Beschloss mentions the public's interest in UFO's but fails to cite the reasons that precipitated the fascination, i.e., the continuing sightings occurring all over the world--ever since 1947, with flaps several years apart. He omits the Air Force's 22 year investigation into the phenomenon, and the laws put into place in order to keep the topic secret, as well the CIA's involvement in a public debunking campaign.

Beschloss uses the verb, "believe" (re UFOs) inferring that UFOs are attached to some "faith-based mechanism," ignoring the fact that the term "UFO" was borne by the Air Force in 1952, as a label for the phenomenon; to associate, the verb, "believe" or the noun, "believer" with "Unidentified Flying Objects" is nonsensical! (A common mistake for those less informed, [the ignorant] and those who obviously don't do their homework!)

Beschloss correctly states that by the 1990's the government wanted to shut "all the conspiracy theories down about Roswell," stating that the debris found was from a "top secret military project, code-named "Operation Mogul" but skips over the fact that they admitted “lying” about the weather balloon story, and he also didn’t mention the excuse the Air Force used for the many reports of “small” alien bodies; this of course according to the Air Force were “anthropomorphic test dummies” used to assess parachutes.

When pointing out that the dummies were 5’-8” to 5”-10” tall and weighing 180 pounds, and weren’t even close to the description of the “child-like (in stature) aliens described by the eye witnesses, and that these "tests" weren’t performed until 1953—6 years after Roswell, the Air Force attributed that to “mass memory problems!” Ad Nauseum!

The poignant fact about the “Today Show segment” is that it’s the “least worst” in regards to what the public has had to endure recently regarding the UfO phenomenon, or more accurately, the media’s coverage of it!

Monday, July 16, 2007

Further Sensationalism Slated for Ufology

UFO Hunting
By Frank Warren
© 7-16-07

     As if it wasn’t enough for all the so-called “TV News outlets” to entertain us with biased and or erroneous reporting of the “UFO phenomenon,” according to Reality TV Magazine, we can now look forward to the Sci-Fi channel airing a show entitled “UFO Hunters.”

This follows in the footsteps of the popular “Ghost Hunters” series on Sci-Fi wherein “two plumbers” by trade, take a group of “paranormal investigators” and go in search of “ghosts.

With camera crew in tow, the audience gets a “front seat” viewing of “TAPS” group (The Atlantic Paranormal Society) attempting to communicate with the dead at various alleged haunted locations.

For regular viewers of GH, (which I am one) we get to follow the antics of this “campy group” of self-proclaimed paranormal investigators; I think the show is very entertaining, funny and some of the locations they visit are quite interesting; although “ghosts, poltergeists etc., aren’t my forte, some of the sites certainly exhibit “unusual phenomenon.”

That said, this show is produced for entertainment, and it certainly achieves that goal. Sadly, given the “entertainment” we’ve received by the “so-called” news media of late in regards to Ufology, in my view, we don’t need to add to that conflagration. The layperson is already confused by the media pertaining to how they present the subject of Ufology; adding another show, i.e., “UFO Hunters” will only facilitate additional ignorance and lightheartedness.

Last year Sci-Fi aired “Sci-Fi Investigates,” again mimicking “Ghost Hunters” with a group including, author Richard Dolan, and archeologist “Bill Doleman” (Roswell Dig) and two “pretty people” to round out the cast; sadly we had to endure the “antics” of the group and their interactions as they traveled the country in search of “paranormal activities” of different sorts.

Personally, I felt Dolan and Doleman’s integrity may have “taken a hit” being associated with this “brand of entertainment.” I have the greatest respect for “Dolan’s research,” and to see him involved in anything “less then the ‘caliber’ of work he exhibited in his book, “UFOs and the National Security State” was disappointing to say the least.

I might add that the Sci-Fi channel has in the past aired some “worthy UFO documentaries” e.g., the episodes hosted by Bryant Gumbel which took a “serious (much needed) look” at the subject; however, it would seem since the formation of “NBC Universal” and it’s acquisition of the Sci-Fi Channel, there is an obvious “course change” in regards to how they handle the subject of Ufology. Much like today’s news shows, “ratings” seem to take precedence over the subject matter and or how it’s presented.

Consequently, I’m not holding my breath for this “new UFO Hunters” show. Undoubtedly, science will take a back to seat to sensationalism; investigative journalism will be disregarded for the antics of the “new group,” and Ufology will be mixed in with Big Foot, the Loch Nest Monster and the ghost of Joan Crawford!

Saturday, July 14, 2007

Stanton Friedman Talks UFOs On The Larry King Show

Larry King Logo & Flying Saucer

     LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, was a UFO buzzing around the historic Apollo 11 moon mission?
Astronaut Buzz Aldrin tells us what he thinks he saw.

Arizona's former governor once dismissed the Phoenix lights that stunned hundreds of eyewitnesses 10 years ago. He'll explain why he now says they could not have been military flares.

Plus, the stories behind the close encounters former Presidents Jerry Ford and Jimmy Carter allegedly had.

And a return to Roswell, New Mexico, where the UFO controversy began 60 years ago with the man who says his father showed him debris from an alien spacecraft.

It's all next on LARRY KING LIVE.

Good evening.

It's a topic that won't go away -- 60 years ago, July 1947, the small town of Roswell, New Mexico went from obscurity to global renown after reports that UFO had crashed there.

Today, people who suggest the possibility that life exists in other galaxies look to Roswell as a modern event that seems to back up the theories.

We welcome Dr. Jesse Marcel, Jr. here in Los Angeles. He was shown UFO debris by his father, Major Jesse Marcel. He's author of "The Roswell Legacy."

Stanton Friedman, one of the foremost experts on Roswell and UFOs.

And in Roswell, New Mexico is Julie Shuster, executive director of the International UFO Museum and Research Center at Roswell. Julie's father, Walter Haut, was the public information officer at Roswell Air Base. He put out the press release about the UFO.

Dr. Marcel, tell us about your dad.

DR. JESSE MARCEL, JR. WAS SHOWN UFO DEBRIS BY HIS FATHER, MAJOR JESSE MARCEL; AUTHOR OF "THE ROSWELL LEGACY": Well, he was the base intelligence officer for the 509th Bomb Group, which is the bomb group that dropped the atomic bomb on Japan that won the war for us.

KING: They were based at Roswell?

MARCEL: They were based at Roswell, at Roswell Army Air Field.

And as the intelligence officer, his job was to investigate unusual events. And a rancher found some strange debris on his ranch land some miles northwest of Roswell. He called the sheriff and brought some to the sheriff. The sheriff didn't know what this was. So the sheriff then called the base commander, Colonel Blanchard, to look into this. And since my dad was the intelligence officer, he sent he and a CIC agent out to the ranch -- CIC was a forerunner of the CIA at that time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Counter Intelligence Corps.

MARCEL: Counter Intelligence Corps.

And when my dad got out there, he found a large area of strange looking debris. This was not remains of a weather balloon or a radar tordid (ph), because the rancher found those before. So this is totally different from that.

So in order to determine what this was, he picked up a certain representative portion of the debris, brought it in to Roswell. Now, it just so happens our house was on the way to Roswell, to the base there. So even though it's late at night, maybe 1:00 in the morning, he came in, woke my mother and myself up.

KING: You were a kid?

MARCEL: I was a kid. Eleven years old at that time. And he will already spread some debris out on the kitchen floor.

And he says, "Look at this. I think this is parts of a flying saucer," or words to that effect. And being a child, I was not quite sure what a flying saucer was, but he was so excited I thought, well, you know, I'd better look at this.

So, he says look for --

KING: He was a major?

MARCEL: He was a major at that time.

And he said, "Look at this. There's (INAUDIBLE) electronic components like vacuum tubes and resistors. It wasn't anything like that at all. But it was strange. There was foil. There was --

KING: So what eventually happened?

Did he --


What he did, he -- we looked at this for a period of time, then he gathered it had back up and then brought it back to the air base that night. And constituently he flew us to General Ramey's office in Fort Worth. And when he came home later, he told my mother and myself never talk about this again, that it was a non-event, don't talk about it, period.

STANTON FRIEDMAN, LEADING EXPERT ON UFOS AND ROSWELL INCIDENT: General Ramey was head of the 8th Air Force and Jesse reported to his boss, Colonel Blanchard. He reported to General Ramey.

KING: And this proceeded to lead to a cover-up, in your opinion?

FREIDMAN: There's no question because General Ramey's --

KING: A cover-up of what?

FREIDMAN: Well, OK. Interesting question. I think alien spacecraft. And they put phony wreckage out. This is General Ramey. And here's his chief of staff --

KING: I want to show this.

FREIDMAN: -- Thomas Jefferson Dubose -- and I managed to locate General Dubose, by this time a retired general, mind you, many years later. And he told me that he took a call from Ramey's boss in Washington telling him, "Get the press off our back. I don't care how you do it. Send some of that wreckage up here today."

There's a great headline, Larry.

KING: That's a great headline.

FREIDMAN: He said, "Send some of that wreckage up here today with one of your colonel couriers and I don't want you to ever talk about it again, not even with your buddy, Roger Ramey. That's an order. Do I need to put it in writing?"

No, sir.

KING: I've done so many shows on this --


KING: -- over the years, as you know. We went out in UFO territory in Nevada.

Where was that?

Fifty-one, Area 51.

FREIDMAN: Yes, near Rachel, Nevada.

KING: And what has never been answered is why cover it up?

FREIDMAN: On my Web site --

KING: OK, let's say there's life in outer space.

FREIDMAN: That isn't the question -- KING: And let's say they came here. OK.

FREIDMAN: That isn't the question --

KING: Did they -- were they out to destroy us, what?

FREIDMAN: I have a paper on my Web site called "The UFO Why Questions," and that's the biggest one -- why the cover-up?

I give six reasons. You want to figure out how to work, they make wonderful delivery and defense systems. You've got wreckage. Rule number one for security -- I worked under security for 14 years, Larry -- is you can't tell your friends without telling your enemies. They listen to you, too, after all.

KING: So you're still working on this 40 years later?

You're still working on?

FREIDMAN: yes, believe it or not.

KING: All right, Julie --


KING: Hold on.

Julie Shuster is the executive director of the International UFO.

Your father was -- and a famous name, Walter Haut -- he was public information officer.

Was he asked to cover it up, too?

JULIE SHUSTER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL UFO MUSEUM AT ROSWELL: My father all along said that he issued the press release. And when he asked to see the debris, he said no.

He -- as far as the cover-up, part of -- being part of the cover- up, no, to my knowledge he was not.

KING: What did the press release say?

SHUSTER: The press release basically said -- and using his words, because I've heard it many, many times -- was we have in our possession a flying saucer. It's being flown to higher headquarters in Fort Worth. And his biggest regret on that press release was using the words "it's being flown to higher headquarters," because the media called from around the world saying how did they know how to fly it?

And he had to explain it was being put on aircraft.

and then he would, you know, that was his biggest thing. And he said -- but he would also add, but it was not of this Earth.

So that was basically his story. KING: That was the release

What did your father believe?

SHUSTER: My father believed it was not of this Earth. It was not a craft of ours. It was something unknown. And he used the words "not of this Earth." He was very emphatic about that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He told me that, too.

KING: Do you know why we have not heard of it -- or what's your guess, Jesse in, a long time?

MARCEL: Well, I'm not sure why we haven't heard about it because I think the American public is well enough informed about space to know about this, that they deserve to know that there's another life out there, that we're not the only ones. Because if we are, there's an awful lot of wasted space out there.

KING: We'll take a break and be back with more.

Our full show tonight devoted to UFOs.

We have a skeptic, as well. He'll be with us.

Don't go away.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The strange wreckage that Brasile discovered spanned an area 300 yards wide by a mile long. That parcel of land, known to investigators as the debris field, is where some believe an extraterrestrial craft blew apart and fell to Earth.




COL. JOHN HAYNES, U.S. AIR FORCE: Over a period of time, dummies were dropped all around there. And I think it's logical to assume that the people there saw Air Force ambulances come out. They saw gurneys come out. They saw body bags come out because the dummies were put into the body bags to protect them. They saw people in pith helmets. They saw people in shorts out there brushing the bushes, looking for the remnants of the balloons.

And when you put all that stuff together and spin it, you find that it fits perfectly with many of the occurrences in Roswell during that era.


KING: Remaining with us, Dr. Jesse Marcel, Jr. Stanton Friedman and Julie Shuster. By the way, Dr. Marcel wrote "The Roswell Legacy."

The forward was written by Stanton Friedman.

Joining us now, Michael Shermer, the publisher of "Skeptic" magazine. "Skeptic" did a whole issue, or a major part of an issue, on Roswell a couple of years back.

And James Fox, filmmaker, executive producer of the feature length documentary, "Out of the Blue: The Definitive Investigation of the UFO Phenomenon." That documentary is narrated by our good friend, Peter Coyote and was just released on DVD.

Is that the one where -- in which Presidents Carter and Ford discuss their sightings?


KING: What do they say?

FOX: Jimmy Carter said he actually saw a UFO and he describes -- he was with, I think, 10 witnesses and --

KING: He was on a plane, right?

FOX: No, he was actually standing outside in Georgia, I believe. And that was when he was a Congressman. And he said it just shot off --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was governor.

FOX: Governor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was governor.

FOX: Governor. I'm so sorry. Excuse me. He was governor. And it shot off at a high rate of speed and disappeared.

KING: And Ford?

FOX: Ford was involved -- it was a very major sighting. It was the equivalent sighting that happened over at the State of Arizona that has actually happened over in Chicago, what was it, 1966, Stanton Friedman?

FREIDMAN: I'm not sure.

FOX: I think it was 1966. But the Air Force came forward with some swamp gas explanation and Ford --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was Michigan.

FOX: -- pushed for -- Michigan, yes. Ford pushed for Congressional hearings and he admitted that on (INAUDIBLE) -- KING: And that's out in DVD now, right?

FOX: yes.

KING: Michael, what do you make of all of this?

MICHAEL SHERMER, PUBLISHER, "SKEPTIC" MAGAZINE: Well, I think it's good to start with separating two separate questions -- are there extraterrestrial intelligences somewhere in the cosmos and have they come here?

So, we have no evidence for either one. The probabilities are probably we're not alone, so -- but it's a vast, empty universe, it's hard to get here and so forth.

The set of evidences used to prove that they've come here are sub what we would expect in a scientific debate. For example, if you're a biologist and you want to name a new species, you have to actually have a type specimen, an actual body. So I always say to the Loch Ness monster people or Big Foot or aliens, show me the body.

I mean once we have that, then we have what scientists consider to be empirical data, where we can dissect it, photograph it, discuss it, look at it and so forth.

So far, this is still at the level of grainy videos, blurry photographs and anecdotes about things that go bump in the night.

KING: But what about strange metals being taken away --

SHERMER: Well --

KING: -- and told not to say anything about it?


So, first of all, do governments lie?

Do they have security cover-ups?

Do they have military secrets?

Yes, of course. So --

KING: But while --

SHERMER: This is in the middle of the cold war. These -- this debris that was shown in the photograph was described as -- and it looks like -- balsa wood, tape, balloons. And, in fact, this is Project --

FREIDMAN: Not true, Larry.

SHERMER: -- this is Project Mogul.

So, in the middle of the cold war we're launching these high altitude balloons to monitor Soviet upper atmosphere nuclear explosions.

FREIDMAN: Larry, we're simply ignoring the evidence. Dr. Shermer isn't a skeptic, he's a debunker. He starts with the presumption there's nothing to this. The explanation is away from the reality.

There's no question that that stuff isn't part of what Jesse Marcel brought in.

SHERMER: Wait. This looks like balsa wood and tape --

FREIDMAN: Of course, it does.


FREIDMAN: But that's not what was found --

SHERMER: And that's what they said it is.

FREIDMAN: That's not what was found --

SHERMER: Yes, it is.

FREIDMAN: -- out in the desert.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This stuff was switched.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They switched it. This is not what --

FREIDMAN: The original descriptions on July 8th are very different. The rancher was grabbed, brought back into town, fed a whole new story with information that simply doesn't fit reality.

SHERMER: But, of course, because --

FREIDMAN: The mogul balloon explanation doesn't fit.


FREIDMAN: The materials are wrong, the location is wrong, the timing is wrong.

SHERMER: Would it -- would it surprise anybody to learn that our government told people don't say this, do say that, because we're in the middle of a cold war?

FREIDMAN: That isn't the question.

SHERMER: Of course. That is what happened.

FREIDMAN: The question is to look at the evidence and what he saw --

MARCEL: I saw something totally different from that --

KING: Now, he saw --


KING: Now, wait a minute.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not what was recovered.

KING: He's the only one in the room that saw something.


KING: Eleven years old, but remembers it.

MARCEL: I remember that very well, in spite of being 11, because it was such a very intriguing experience. Now, the most important thing I saw was the bean-like material that had some strange -- some symbols along the inner surface. They were purple, violet, semi- reflective of light but small, about three eights of an inch in diameter or in length.

KING: They didn't look like anything you'd ever seen?

MARCEL: I thought at first it was like Egyptian hieroglyphics, but it wasn't. It was more like mathematical or geometric symbols. And that's -- they're all --

KING: Did you have another guess for it?

MARCEL: Not at that time, no.

FREIDMAN: His father told me, when I first talked to him back in the '70s, that there was nothing conventional out on that field. We've got an area three quarters of a mile long, hundreds of feet wide -- nothing conventional.

KING: Julie, did your father see it?

SHUSTER: My father came out with a statement after his death, we released that, said he did see the craft, yes.

KING: He did see it?

SHUSTER: Yes, sir.

Find anything in the craft?

Did he find anything in the craft?

SHUSTER: I don't know. He doesn't go into that in the statement and he didn't -- he was not privy. He was not out at the site.

What he saw, I believe, was at the Air Force base.

KING: Weaponry aside, Michael, if there are extraterrestrials, why hide it?

SHERMER: Yes, right?

That's what I say, why hide it?

But, look, this would be the greatest discovery in the history of science. NASA would be elated, of course. They'd could go to Congress and get more funding.

Why would anybody cover this up?


SHERMER: And look what happens when they make even the smallest discoveries. Of course, we hear all about it.

KING: James?

FOX: I have a question to ask you.


FOX: If UFOs -- and I'm speaking hypothetically for a moment here -- if UFOs are real, it would be one of the greatest discoveries of our time. Do you agree with that?

SHERMER: Of course.

FOX: Now, if UFOs were -- and I use the word if -- were buzzing around in our airspace, who would be best equipped to know about it?

SHERMER: Well, our government, perhaps.

FOX: The military?

SHERMER: Maybe. But maybe not.

KING: Yes, all right --


FOX: So we've got the highest ranking military officials in the world telling us right now that these things are real. We've got generals --


FOX: We've got admirals, we've got colonels, we've got presidents, governors.

What do --


FOX: If we can't believe them, who can we believe?


A lack of evidence --

FOX: I'm sorry, if we can't believe them, who can we believe?

SHERMER: Well, I --

FREIDMAN: There's physical traces --


SHERMER: Well, I -- I wouldn't necessarily --


SHERMER: Listen, guys, guys, wait.

FREIDMAN: Evidence. You don't talk about evidence.

SHERMER: This is simply a lack of evidence. So when I say --


SHERMER: Where is the spacecraft, you say they hid it.

Where is the documentation?

They covered it up.

This is like the weapons of mass destruction thing.

Where is the evidence?

The fact that we can't find any means that they're there because it's not (INAUDIBLE).

KING: Let me get a break and we'll be right back with more on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is our relationship to the larger reality?

SEAN THACKERY, CIVILIAN SIGHTING, MARIN, CALIFORNIA: I looked up and all of a sudden there was this, you know -- I've got to say it, flying saucer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It didn't even make a sound, not even a sound.

RENATO NICOLAI, CIVILIAN SIGHTING, FRANCE: I saw one, but I don't whether it just disappeared.



(VIDEO OF AN ALIEN DOLL) KING: The skeptic here is the only one that brings these.


SHERMER: He drinks beer, too.

FREIDMAN: We worry about evidence. We don't worry about --

KING: The truth is, James, we want it to be true.

Don't you think 90 percent of the public wants it to be true?

FOX: I challenge anyone out there who is watching this show tonight -- and I bring this to your attention, as well -- to watch "Out of the Blue" and conclude there's nothing to this phenomenon. It's impossible.

SHERMER: Well, when you say nothing to it, of course, there's something to explain.

FOX: It's inexplicable.

SHERMER: Before we say something is out of this world, let's first make sure that it's not in this world. And there's nothing out of this world --


SHERMER: -- and there's so much we don't know about the natural --

FOX: Process of elimination.

SHERMER: -- world. There's so much we --


SHERMER: It could be military aircraft.

FOX: No, hang on a second.


KING: There's a 1997 event in your film, right?

FOX: yes.

KING: What happened?

FOX: A very massive craft flew over the State of Arizona. It was witnessed --


FOX: No. It's a fact.




FOX: No, a craft.


FOX: These kids said you could have hit it with a rock --

SHERMER: Don't say massive. Just --

FOX: -- it was so low.

SHERMER: -- something.

FOX: It was a massive craft that flew -- this -- this kid said he could have hit it with a rock.

SHERMER: Well, so what?


KING: We're watching this now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you're not.

Larry, you're not watching that --

KING: Oh, That's not it?

Wrong information.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, that's right.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the B roll from the footage, but it's --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But that is the Phoenix lights. That's right.

FREIDMAN: No. Those are the flares seen at 10:00, not the massive thing --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Think of that as eye candy over --

FREIDMAN: -- seen earlier in the evening by --


FOX: Larry, think of any of this trying to --

KING: One at a time.

FOX: Let me finish. Let me finish.



FOX: So, there were a lot of people out under the night sky looking up to get a glimpse of the Hale-Bopp Comet. And at about 8:30 this very large boomerang shaped craft flew over and was witnessed by hundreds of thousands of people.

About two months later, an article brought it -- it got a lot of local media and an article broke in "USA Today" which pretty much put it into the forefront of -- in the U.S. The story broke.

And Fife Symington came forward and had a press conference and said he was going to get to the bottom of it. He was the governor of Arizona at the time. And later that afternoon, he had a press conference -- an unscheduled press conference where he had one of his aides dressed up in an alien suit and made a joke out of the whole thing.

Well, I was always puzzled because I spoke to many of the witnesses that saw this craft and I was wondering that like why he did, why he did what he did.

So I contacted him 10 years later and he recanted -- not only did he recant the statement, he said he investigated --


FOX: -- he investigated the whole -- the thing, and then he himself, who was a captain in the Air Force, saw it.

KING: All right, let me ask some fair questions.


KING: Are you open to the possibility, Michael?

SHERMER: Of course. I mean all science is open to that. But -- but -- but just being open to it and what we would like to be true, does not make it true.

KING: Are you open to the possibility, Jesse, you're wrong?

MARCEL: I am. But not really.


MARCEL: Not really.

SHERMER: Well, look, Larry, this has all the earmarks of a myth. It started, really, in the late 1980s. If you look in the UFO literature of the 1940s, '50s and '60s, there's almost no mention of Roswell. Other incidences are the big meccas of the UFO-ology (ph). This becomes --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That shows you how successful they were.

SHERMER: This becomes -- 40 years after the fact eyewitnesses start remembering things. We know about the psychology of misremembering, confabulation of different memories.

KING: Well, all right --

SHERMER: We know that -- and think about just one thing.

Why would the aliens look like this?

KING: Well, that's --

SHERMER: These are bipedal --

KING: Who drew that?

Who drew that?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, where did you get that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don't need to pay you money to draw an alien.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- only one that believes in an alien.

SHERMER: This is -- this comes from television (INAUDIBLE) --

KING: Yes, but that's not drawn (INAUDIBLE) --

SHERMER: -- (INAUDIBLE) from eyewitness accounts. And once it got started, once this image began --

KING: You mean from like from the national trade whacko magazine?

SHERMER: Yes, that's right. But once that became the image of what aliens would look like, that's what people began to see in their dreams and their abduction experiences.


SHERMER: That's right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now wait a minute.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He can't go unchallenged. (CROSSTALK)

KING: Hold it.


FREIDMAN: The Betty and Barney Hill case goes back to 1961. It's a new book by myself and Betty's niece. There was a book in 1966 by John Fuller, "The Interrupted Journey," a best-seller all over the world, a television movie, James Earl Jones in it, 1975.

This updates it by 40 years or so because Kathleen has all her great stuff.

KING: And?

FREIDMAN: They were strange little guys and the work was done to illicit these memories by a psychiatrist who had no interest in UFOs, didn't believe in flying saucers, kept trying to make them think oh, it was Betty's dream.

And one of the things we do in the book is go over how he was pushing them in the direction of not alien, despite all the evidence that it was alien.

SHERMER: But, Stan, you know that on Earth, primates have only evolved once.

What are the chances of that happening on some other planet --

FREIDMAN: we don't know.

SHERMER: -- and then, and they're looking pretty much like us. And -- and --

FREIDMAN: We don't know.

SHERMER: And then they come here and find us.

What are the chances of that?

FREIDMAN: The chances are very good because

SHERMER: It's more likely --

FREIDMAN: -- because that's what --

SHERMER: -- more likely that we are hallucinating --

FREIDMAN: -- the evidence shows.

SHERMER: -- these sorts of --

FOX: So you're saying the governor of Arizona was hallucinating --

SHERMER: No, no.

FOX: -- and thousands of other witnesses --

SHERMER: No. No, no, no, no, no, no.

FOX: -- didn't see that?

SHERMER: No, that's a different story. UFOs are literally just unidentified flying objects.

KING: Julie --

SHERMER: In science, it's OK to just say we don't know.

KING: Julie, did your father go to his grave believing?

SHUSTER: yes, he did. He really did. He was very firm in the fact that he said it was not of this Earth. You know, one of the things that seems to be being forgotten, to me, is the fact that that July 8th, 1947 newspaper is a fact. You know, we may not have a lot of the scientific evidence that is being discussed, but that newspaper and the July 9th are facts.

I mean those are evidence in themselves. And that says it happened, you know?

So my father said it did. Numerous people -- you know, I was born and raised here. I know these people. They're real people and they had better things to do with their lives than make up a hoax.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She brings up a really good point, too.

SHERMER: But not hoax.

Why not just honestly misperceiving something?

What's -- we know that people --

FREIDMAN: The only atomic bombing group in the world --

SHERMER: -- honestly misunderstand --

FREIDMAN: -- with a lead group, a military group and hand picked officers and hand picked men, and they're making up stories?

Walter wasn't just a PIO --

SHERMER: Stan, Stan, your whole case is still based on anecdotes. We've got to have --

FREIDMAN: Because that's --

SHERMER: We need something more than that.

FREIDMAN: -- absolutely nonsense. We have 3,000 physical --

SHERMER: What else have you got?

FREIDMAN: -- trace cases.


FREIDMAN: We have multiple witnesses.


FREIDMAN: Well, go look.

SHERMER: I brought something.

What did you bring? Where's -- f

KING: Oh, we have a headline that you wanted to show.

SHERMER: Where's one of those probes from the dashboard?

FREIDMAN: I didn't say probes.

SHERMER: Where's one of the gadgets from the --

FREIDMAN: I said physical trace cases --

SHERMER: -- spacecraft?

Where --

FREIDMAN: -- multiple visual cases.

SHERMER: Give us something, you know, like an on --

FREIDMAN: I'm saying photographs examined by scientists.

SHERMER: Yes, but (INAUDIBLE) photographs.

FREIDMAN: -- by scientists who say --


FREIDMAN: you're making proclamations, you're not doing investigation.


KING: All right, I've got to get a break.

But I want to show this headline first.

This is from the "Roswell Daily Record": "RAAF Captures Flying Saucer On Ranch In Roswell Region."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roswell Army Airfield is the initials.

KING: We thank you, Dr. Marcel and Julie for being with us. They will be gone.

Others will be coming in.

Later in our next half hour, astronaut Buzz Aldrin and what he has to say about a certain UFO sighting. It's very important.

Stick around.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do these lights belong to visitors from outer space?

Hundreds of people across the valley think it's a distinct possibility. Good evening.

I'm Mark Bailey.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I'm Robin Sewell (ph).

Thanks for joining us. We start tonight with the strange dots of light that were the talk of the town.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, everybody was excited about the comet but in the middle of that, these very mysterious lights appeared over Phoenix, over Maricopa County.



LARRY KING, HOST: Welcome back.

Just a quick heads up for all your computer savvy viewers, our later podcast is now available online. You can you download it at any time you want. It's my interview with some of professional wrestling's biggest names past and present, people like Chris Jericho and John Ceno, and Brett Hart. They talk about the life and death of former wrestling star Chris Benoit. To download it, just go to CNN.com/LarryKing or subscribe to iTunes.

Stanton Friedman remains with us, so does Michael Shermer, so does James Fox whose film "Out of The Blue: The Definitive Investigation of The UFO Phenomena" is available on DVD. And we're now joined by George Noory, the host of "Coast to Coast," a radio show that counts a large number of UFO enthusiasts among its listeners.

How did that develop, George?

GEORGE NOORY, HOST, "COAST TO COAST": Larry, we followed in your footsteps. Of course, you made the fort for us. And then Art Bell came along and then I replaced Art.

KING: Oh, so you do the all-night show.

NOORY: I do the "Coast to Coast" A.M. all night show.

KING: And I never got UFO callers.

NOORY: Never?

KING: No. Occasionally but Bell got...

NOORY: Art got all of them. He got them all.

KING: And now you get them.

NOORY: And now I get what used...

KING: All right, what percentage are Kookyville?

NOORY: Kookyville, I'd say about 10 percent. That's honestly.

KING: Have you become a believer?

NOORY: I have believed that this planet has been visited since I was a little boy. My mother brought me home a book once by Walter Sullivan the late "New York Times" science writer called "We Are Not Alone." I was convinced that there was something going on.

Ironically when I was 21, my very first radio interview was with Stanton Friedman in Detroit, first one. And he hasn't changed since.

KING: Do you book people like Michael Shermer on?

NOORY: Michael has been on the program. He is what I call my skeptic. He debates people.


NOORY: He goes in the cage. Two go in, one comes out.

KING: What do you think the answer is to the unanswerable? If it happened why is it covered up?

NOORY: I don't necessarily know, Larry, why it's covered up. But a couple of things have happened just in the last several weeks. You just had Julie on, Walter Haut's daughter. Walter signed an affidavit in 2002. He died in 2005. That affidavit was just released several weeks ago that testifies that he saw the crash. He saw some of the occupants.

And then another person, his name is Clark McLellan, who is not very happy with NASA anymore, but he worked on the ground shuttle fleet. He says that he walked with Werner von Braun, the father of modern day rocketry. And he said von Braun told him that he saw the debris as Roswell and aliens that had snake skin.

It's an amazing story. And you know Stanton is aware of this.

KING: Werner von Braun said he saw aliens?

NOORY: According to Clark McLellan.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was based at Fort Bliss, which is right down the street from all of this. So it wouldn't be surprising if -- I'm not saying that happened. I'm saying it wouldn't be surprising if von Braun would have been called in to look at wreckage of an alien spacecraft. I mean he was the foremost expert. So...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Given how much we know about the unreliability of human eyewitness testimony, especially when you're observing something at night and...

SHERMER: How about daytime?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...and you can't tell distance, size. Somebody says it was the size of a ship or whatever. How do you know? What's the comparison factor there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't they use eyewitness testimony in a court of law all the time?


SHERMER: May I say something about the way science works, Larry, is that the default assumption is that whatever the claim is, it's not true until it's proved. So the burden of proof is on the person making the claim.

KING: Right.

SHERMER: And as I said at the beginning, we have to have some physical evidence, anecdotes and eyewitness testimony and so on is a good place to start a research program. But at some point, if you want to name a new species, you've got to have an actual type specimen. You got to have a piece of the spacecraft, as I've always said to Stan and others.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Radar operators, doesn't mean anything.


KING: One at a time.

FRIEDMAN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is that people are good observers and poor interpreters. You can't have it both ways.


FRIEDMAN: Throw out all the courts of law. Scientists have to observe, too.

SHERMER: They're not -- courts of law, eyewitness testimony is not all that reliable. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) question just quickly we can all agree on, if UFOs are real and they were buzzing our airspace, who would be the best equipped to know about it?

KING: Well, the Air Force.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. And they're us these things are real. Why aren't we believing them?

SHERMER: No, but who is saying this? Who is saying this?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've got FAA officials. We've got colonels and generals and admirals and pilots and just the list goes on.

SHERMER: But why would they be any better than you or I...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because they're trained to know.

SHERMER: No, no, no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are trained observers.

SHERMER: No, no, no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can't say...

SHERMER: Trained observers are no better than just regular observers.

FRIEDMAN: And at what point do you not believe the people? I mean Michael has been on the program. Walter Haut writes signs and affidavits that says I saw these things.

SHERMER: I saw something. Yes, of course.

KING: The pilot is flying the plane, a commercial airline, and he spots something.


KING: Who does he report it to?


FRIEDMAN: They're different. Pilots are very reluctant to report. There's a new report coming out within a couple of weeks, I'm told, by the guy who wrote about, about the O'Hare sightings on November 7, reported in "The Chicago Tribune" on January 1. It got a million hits, that article did, on their website, which is utterly incredible. The report is coming out.

Here we have guys working for United Airlines spotting something over O'Hare Airport. What are we supposed to do with those guys? Dr. Richard Haynes, retired NASA scientist, has written a report that will be out very shortly. There's an organization called NARCAP, National Aviation Reporting Center for Anomalist Phenomena. You don't hear the word UFO in it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but Stanton, you don't have to do anything. If you say, why do we do with it? You don't have to do anything with it. In science, anomalies always exist.

FRIEDMAN: UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm a physicist. You're looking at this from...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To go from something we don't know to say that I don't know what this is to I believe it's an extraterrestrial craft...

KING: All right, let me get a -- I'm going to tell you what I'm going to do, I'm going to get a back, come back and then we're going to spend a segment with Buzz Aldrin, the second man to walk on the moon, and then Fife Symington, the former governor of Arizona, and then our panel will come back to close the show.

We'll be right back with my friend Buzz Aldrin right after this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In 1947, Americans found their skies filled with all sorts of strange flying objects.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The UFO phenomenon really took off actually in June of 1947 in the state of Washington when a pilot by the name of Kenneth Arnold saw many objects going in formation at a very, very high speed by Mount Rainier in Washington.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Arnold said that the nine silvery objects he'd seen looked like saucers skipping over a pond. The next day his story was front-page news and a new term entered the American lexicon, flying saucer.



KING: Only 12 men have ever walked on the moon. And the man who did it a second time anyone walked on the moon was Buzz Aldrin. He was part of the first mission that got there, a NASA astronaut on Apollo 11. He's here with a model of Apollo 11. He was with the first pair with Neil Armstrong, of course. And Buzz the panel remains so that they might want to pop something at them.

But Buzz, what's your connection to this program? What did you see?

BUZZ ALDRIN, FORMER ASTRONAUT/APOLLO 11: What did I see? Well, we -- the first day out, maybe six hours after launch, we were scheduled to make a mid-course correction. And I'd like to show you a few things in this rocket just to point out the condition that we were in. During launch, this boost protective cover comes off, hopefully not with the command module attached. And then the first stage drops off, the second stage drops off. Unfortunately, I can't take this apart, but there's the third stage and inside is the lunar module. And this is the command and service module.

Once after going in orbit and a half around the earth we fire for five minutes, this engine here, and we head toward the moon. Now shortly after that, we separate the command and service module. And it turns around like this. And it docks with the lunar module. I'm going to have to be pretty ambidextrous.

KING: Are we getting to a UFO?

ALDRIN: We're getting to that, yes.

KING: I only ask in view of time.

ALDRIN: I know.

KING: This is fascinating.

ALDRIN: You don't want me to be the jury of all these people now, do you?

KING: No, I don't.

ALDRIN: Right. Now notice these three and four panels. Whenever the command module separates and turns around, those panels go off in four different directions. The rocket -- now we're separated from the rocket, and the rocket and the spacecraft, the lunar module and command module, are heading towards the moon.

Now we orient perpendicular to the plane of the sun, the earth and the moon, and rotate slowly like this. And we can look out these windows and see the earth drift by and see the moon drift by.

KING: And what did you see?

ALDRIN: And I saw a light out there, OK. This is after we had witnessed the upper stage rocket next to us make an evasive maneuver to miss the moon. Later missions, it crashed into the moon so that we could determine the seismic effect of crashing into the moon.

KING: So you saw a light?

ALDRIN: So we saw a light and we thought, I wonder what that is. You know there are a lot of lights out there when you're not looking in the direction of the sun. There are a lot of stars. And they're all fixed relative to each other.

KING: What was unusual...

ALDRIN: Now when one of them starts moving or it's moving, and we know that that's another object. It's not a star.

KING: Stars don't move?

ALDRIN: Well, they move but they're so damn far away that...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How long did it follow you for?

ALDRIN: Exactly. That's why I started to do this.

Now, we know that if we were to say, Houston, we've a light out the window. It going along with us, heading for the moon. A lot of these guys are going to go ape, you know. And it's really going to endanger the mission and occupy a lot of our time trying to explain what's going on.

KING: All right.

ALDRIN: So we very shrewdly, Neil did, said, "Houston, where is the upper stage?" They didn't know right away. But they said we'll check with the guys in the back room. The guys in the back room in 10 minutes came back and said, "It's 6,000 miles away." Well, we figured that's not what we're looking at. So we started thinking a little bit more about these four panels. And I'd seen a graph where it showed the separation distance that was calculated before liftoff, before the whole mission went of where these panels would be in case the spacecraft made some maneuver. And they guaranteed there would be no contact.

KING: Hold it right there. You've got me (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

I'm going to hold Buzz. We're going to add the governor. We'll figure it all out how to do it, and close with all of them because I'm suddenly involved in this. What the hell was that?

Back with more, don't go away.


NEIL ARMSTRONG, FORMER ASTRONAUT: That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Remember when you called me and you thought the alien was in your room.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, but I don't want to talk about that.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's always sightings of UFOs and all that. So I mean people want to see aliens. I want to see an alien.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just interesting. They're not human. They're not animals. We don't know what they are.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To think that humans are the only living organisms to populate this universe is stupidity.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think a lot of people want to know that there's something out there that's beyond our earth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're coming and we'll be ready.


KING: All right, our panel remains. Buzz Aldrin, the NASA astronaut, second man on the moon, remains. We're going to have him pick up in a moment his description of that thing flying across the sky as he heads towards the moon.

Fife Symington now joins us, the former governor of Arizona, who in 1997 ridiculed an infamous UFO sighting by thousands of people in this state and recently admitted he was wrong. By the way, Fife runs the Arizona Culinary Institute.

Well, you were wrong because?

FIFE SYMINGTON, FORMER GOVERNOR OF ARIZONA: Well, I saw the Phoenix Lights along with hundreds if not thousands of people. And when I saw them on that day in March, I didn't say anything about it. And then the whole issue came back up again in the following June with a big "USA Today," I think, article. And there was sort of a frenzy about it. And so, I felt a little levity wouldn't hurt. So we did a spoof over the alien invasion, if you will. And I think a lot of people misunderstood what I was doing. I was just -- we were just having fun trying to lighten people up over the issue.

KING: So you acknowledge what?

SYMINGTON: Well, I acknowledge that I saw a craft. I was up in the sunny slope area around 8:00 at night. And I went out to look to the west where the -- all the news channels were filming the Phoenix Lights. And to my astonishment this large sort of delta-shaped, wedge-shaped, craft moved silently over the valley, over Squall Peak, dramatically large, very distinctive leading edge with some enormous lights. And it just went on down to the Southeast Valley. And I was absolutely stunned because I was turning to the west looking for the distant Phoenix Lights and all of a sudden this apparition appears.

KING: It was not an airplane?

SYMINGTON: No. It was definitely not an airplane and not a tens. And it was certainly not high-altitude flares because flares don't fly in formation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he's a pilot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And a captain in the Air Force.

KING: A captain in the Air Force.

Buzz, what did you see?

ALDRIN: What did I see during the flight?

KING: Yes, you saw...

ALDRIN: We saw one of the four panels, the 99.999. And these are three guys who have flown in space twice and have looked out at the stars and all sorts of things, so believe...

KING: You saw something there?

ALDRIN: Yes, we certainly saw something. We could see...


JAMES FOX, FILMMAKER: I have a quick question. When you were a test pilot, I think it was at Edwards Air Force Base?

ALDRIN: I commanded the test pilot school afterwards. I was not a test pilot.

FOX: OK. I was told by a very close source of yours that you actually saw something other than that.

ALDRIN: A lot of people have said things that I saw, but that doesn't mean that I saw it.


FOX: Someone very close to you told me that you had another sighting that you actually chased.

KING: In your years of flying, have you seen strange things?

ALDRIN: I was flying a T-33 I guess and I looked out and I saw a star out there. But it wasn't a star, it was Venus. But it kept following me all along. And you would swear that it's another object out there. And you can turn -- and I want to congratulate you on your magic show last night, with all the illusions, because now we're getting a lot more illusions tonight. And can you explain everything that happened with Criss Angel last night? No, you can't explain it.


KING: All, right, here's what I'm going to do, folks. I'm going to take a break, come back, and get the thoughts in a wind-up session of what all these people think, and especially what the governor and Buzz think about what the four others have been talking about when we come back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Public interest in the last few years has increased very greatly in a phenomenon which has been identified as flying saucers. These stories have led to much fiction and much fancy.


KING: OK, let's do a round robin here. Buzz, what do you think, after all you've heard tonight, think there are?

ALDRIN: I wish I could solve your dilemma. I think it's fascinating to hear both sides of this. I really do believe that you need to have very firm evidence. And cover-up is something that just doesn't exist for very long. Sooner or later somebody is going to squeal on it or -- and I just can't believe that we would be covering up such a major, significant event as true evidence of being from somewhere else.

KING: Governor, from what you saw, was that from outer space?

SYMINGTON: I think it was from another world. I've never seen anything like it, Larry. It was enormous. It's unlike anything I've ever seen. And, you know, it was all over the news. Hundreds, if not thousands of people saw it.

KING: It was huge, right?

SYMINGTON: Yes. And so...

KING: And traveling fast?

SYMINGTON: ...I don't -- I know of no other explanation unless a phantom stunk works have something cooking that we don't know about.

KING: Two distinguished gentlemen, an astronaut, a governor, different views from what you've seen.

ALDRIN: Well, I didn't see what he saw.


FOX: When you say waiting for people to come forward, people have come forward. High-ranking military officials have come forward and talked about the validity.

KING: Stanton, do you think we're ever going to know?

FRIEDMAN: I hope so. I'm an optimist. Before I leave this planet, I think. And I think this year will be a good year because the media are finally beginning to recognize that. There's an awful lot of interest in this subject. You know that, but not everybody does.

KING: We'll never know your side, will we, because they'll always say, you can never prove it? SHERMER: As soon as we find an actual alien, a body, an actual space craft, one of those probes that we hear all about, if somebody brings one of those, OK, that's all we need. That's all science needs is some kind of empirical evidence.

KING: Do you think we'll ever know, James?

FOX: I think that if you watch "Out of The Blue," you'll know that we are definitely and have been misled for 60 years or more. I mean there's no question. I haven't had one person watch this movie with the evidence that we've collected from all around the world -- and by the way, I'd like to mention my co-producers, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Tim Goldman.

But I challenge anyone to watch "Out of The Blue" and then conclude there's nothing to it. It's impossible.

KING: George, do you think we'll know?

NOORY: Vast universe, Larry. To think that we haven't been visited before, I think is foolish. One of Buzz's colleagues, Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14, has told me that he believes we've been visited by extraterrestrials. I think it's real.

KING: Think we will know, governor?

SYMINGTON: I hope so. I mean I'd be really disappointed if we don't. But, of course, the skeptics, the professional skeptics, won't be happy unless there's a body. But, you know, we have a lot of evidence, a lot of photographs, a lot of news media, coverage of it. And the lights over Phoenix was a very compelling, dramatic event seen by so many people that it's -- you can't just kind of blow that off and say oh well, that -- everybody in Phoenix was hallucinating.

KING: We're almost out of time.

Buzz, when you wrap around...

ALDRIN: You know I think we're within several hundred years of being able to visit somewhere else, all right. Now the odds of our being visited in the last 60 years when we are so close and you look at the billions of years that we've been in existence here, what an odd coincidence it is that two societies just happen to interact with each other at this time...

KING: Thank you all very much.

ALDRIN: ...when you consider that we want to see things.

KING: We're out of time. We'll go look at the book.


Thanks very much for joining us. Anderson Cooper, "AC 360" is next.