Showing posts with label Aztec Incident. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Aztec Incident. Show all posts

Thursday, October 20, 2022

20 Questions About Flying Saucers (UFOs / UAP) For The Air Force - 1950

20 Questions About Flying Saucers (UFOs / UAP) For The Air Force - 1950

     The recent announcement by the Air Force that its Operation Saucer had been closed failed in its purpose to put an official quietus on discussion of Flying Saucers [UFOs].

The announcement followed by 24 hours of the appearance in True Magazine of an article by Lt. Donald E. Keyhoe, entitled, "Flying Saucers Are Real." Lt. Keyhoe spoke in Buffalo and repeated his statements after the Air Force announcement had been issued.

Among the columnists and commentators who have taken part in the discussion is Frank Scully, who writes a column entitled
Frank Scully
By Frank Scully,
Buffalo Evening News
9-9-1950
"Scully's Scrapbook." Mr. Scully scoffed at the Air Force announcement and listed 20 questions which he would like to ask the Air Force top command.

Subsequently, Mr. Scully said the questions were propounded in utmost seriousness, that whatever others might think, he saw no reason for treating the subject of Flying Saucers lightly. Mr. Scully's questions follow:

Thursday, March 28, 2019

The Aztec UFO Incident 71st Anniversary | – Interview with Scott & Suzanne Ramsey



     The high desert of New Mexico, March 25, 1948 early morning a rancher leaves his house to let his goats out of the corral. There is a loud noise that draws his eyes to the sky where he sees a silver flying saucer wobbling as if in distress.
By Martin Willis Live Shows
3-26-19
The saucer scrapes along a rock cliff causing sparks. It then heads north and lands on a mesa. There a group of witnesses gather to examine the craft including ranchers, oil field workers, police, a county commissioner and preacher. They find that the craft is intact except for a hole the size of a quarter. They quickly grab a pole from one of their trucks and began poking in side of the craft. Suddenly the craft opens and reveals 2 slumped over dead beings. As if this isn’t amazing enough, there is so much more to this comprehensive study and documentation of a historical event. Meet the witnesses and scientists that worked on the craft. Follow the individuals involved in the cover-up and the enduring impact that this incident had on their lives and all of ours. Now available through Career Press The Aztec UFO INCIDENT.

The Aztec UFO Incident? | 71st Anniversary – Scientists and Military Converge on Witnesses’ Home (Redux)



Metorites and Flying Saucers - The Rockdale Reporter and Messenger (Highlighted) (Rockdale, Tex.) 1-2-1950
Witnesss were told that the mystery object was “no meteorite, but a guided object, probably from the military establishment of a foreign power.” (click and or right click on image to enlarge)

     Editors Note—The article above generally concerns what was initially reported to be a meteorite, which was tracked across the sky on October 30, 1947 (not August 1948 as the article incorrectly cites).
By The Rockdale Reporter and Messenger
1-12-1950
Reports of the military and scientists converging on the alleged Flying Saucer landing are part and parcel of what has become known as The Aztec Incident. Interestingly, the article in part states:
The Weafers reported their strange experience to persons, who had been in civilization, and were told that it was the much talked of meteorite. Soon university scientists arrived and set up measuring and calculating devices at the point where Mrs. Weafer first saw the strange object.

"Internationally known experts," says Weafer, "who were present that day at our home, approached me and told me that it was no meteorite, but a guided object, probably from the military establishment of a foreign power. There seemed considerable agreement among scientists and military authorities on the point."
[Editor's emphasis]
The Aztec Incident was/is thought to have occurred in the Spring (March) of 1948; what was publicly labeled a meteorite referenced in the a fore mentioned article occurred on October, 30 1947, approximately 5 months earlier. Were the Weafer’s witnesses to the Aztec Incident (from afar), further confirming military and scientific involvement? Was their experience a separate incident, 5 months apart, involving the military and scientists? Or was their sighting of an actual meteorite which seems to conflict with the Weafer declarations?—FW

Tuesday, December 06, 2016

The Aztec UFO Incident? Indians to Aid Search For Mystery Meteor - Nov, 1947

Indians to Aid Search For Mystery Meteor - Nov, 1947
- click and or right click on image(s) to enlarge -

     [...]

Charting of accounts and points of observation, he said; indicate the
By Paper Unknown
November 1947
sky stone or fragments of it should have reached the earth in an area of a few miles north of Red Rock, southwest of Ship Rock Mountain N.M.

[...]

Noting reports of recent searches for "mystery" plane crashes, Dr. Nininger pointed out that fruitless searching for planes "that never fell can be avoided ..."

The Aztec UFO Incident? Mystery Meteor Hunted

Mystery Meteor Hunted - AP 11-4-1947
- click and or right click on image(s)to enlarge -

     Scientists tracking a mystery object which blazed across the sky the night of Oct. 30, [1947] on the theory it was a meteorite, decided Tuesday that it fell in the "Four Corners" country.
By AP
11-4-1947

[...]

The flashing object was the second to streak across western skies in a month. The first roared over El Paso three weeks ago and came to earth in Mexico. The army said it was meteorite but witnesses said it was a V-2 rocket "or some superweapon."

Friday, November 04, 2016

The Aztec UFO Incident? Scientists and Military Converge on Witnesses’ Home

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Metorites and Flying Saucers - The Rockdale Reporter and Messenger (Highlighted) (Rockdale, Tex.) 1-2-1950
Witnesss were told that the mystery object was “no meteorite, but a guided object, probably from the military establishment of a foreign power.” (click and or right click on image to enlarge)

     Editors Note—The article above generally concerns what was initially reported to be a meteorite, which was tracked across the sky on October 30, 1947 (not August 1948 as the article incorrectly cites).
The Rockdale Reporter and Messenger
1-2-1950
Reports of the military and scientists converging on the alleged Flying Saucer landing are part and parcel of what has become known as The Aztec Incident. Interestingly, the article in part states:
The Weafers reported their strange experience to persons, who had been in civilization, and were told that it was the much talked of meteorite. Soon university scientists arrived and set up measuring and calculating devices at the point where Mrs. Weafer first saw the strange object.

"Internationally known experts," says Weafer, "who were present that day at our home, approached me and told me that it was no meteorite, but a guided object, probably from the military establishment of a foreign power. There seemed considerable agreement among scientists and military authorities on the point."
[Editor's emphasis]
The Aztec Incident was/is thought to have occurred in the Spring (March) of 1948; what was publicly labeled a meteorite referenced in the a fore mentioned article occurred on October, 30 1947, approximately 5 months earlier. Were the Weafer’s witnesses to the Aztec Incident (from afar), further confirming military and scientific involvement? Was their experience a separate incident, 5 months apart, involving the military and scientists? Or was their sighting of an actual meteorite which seems to conflict with the Weafer declarations?—FW

Monday, March 30, 2015

UFO Authors Return to Site of Aztec Flying Saucer Crash | 67th ANNIVERSARY of THE AZTEC UFO CRASH

Scott and Susan Ramsey at their plaque marking the site of an alleged UFO crash 3-27-15
Scott and Susan Ramsey at their plaque marking the site of an alleged UFO crash (Credit: Alexa Rogals — The Daily Times)

By James Fenton
The Daily Times
3-2-8-15

      AZTEC — They're baaack.

Authors and UFO researchers Scott and Suzanne Ramsey returned to Aztec last week from their home in North Carolina to continue work for an expanded and updated edition of the couple's 2012 self-published book "The Aztec Incident — Recovery at Hart Canyon."

After conducting more than a quarter of a century of research, the Ramseys — Suzanne Ramsey is from Farmington — once again traversed the sandstone mesas of Hart Canyon, 8 miles northeast of Aztec, to examine the area where believers say a UFO crash landed 67 years ago.

Aztec's brush with alien life is purported to have occurred on March 25, 1948. . . .

Tiny Men, Flying Discs [UFOs] To Visit Us, Says Scientist | 67th ANNIVERSARY of THE AZTEC UFO CRASH

Wednesday, March 25, 2015

Time Magazine Pays Tribute To 'Flying Saucer' Pundit - Silas Newton (1930) | 67th ANNIVERSARY of THE AZTEC UFO CRASH

Silas Newton

By Time Magazine
11-10-1930

      The staff of the New York Evening Journal last week discovered a story in their midst: pretty young Nan O'Reilly, reporter for the sporting department, had been coming to work for a year and a half in a swanky limousine with liveried chauffeur. She would get out of the car around the corner from the office and walk in like the workaday rest of the crowd.

For a year and a half she had kept secret the fact that she was married, that her husband is a millionaire—President Silas Newton of Indiana Southwestern Gas & Utilities Corp. He is an able golfer (six times champion of Virginia).

They met at a tournament she was covering. Often after their marriage they met again at tournaments—formally, without sign of their relation. "When we get back home we have many a laugh." She was afraid she would lose her job if her Journal chiefs knew she was married, rich. Newspaper work has an abiding fascination for those who have followed it. You get about so much, meet so many "interesting people." . . .

Thursday, December 11, 2014

The Roswell Slides and the Aztec UFO Crash

The Roswell Slides and the Aztec UFO Crash

By Kevin Randle
A Different Perspective
12-9-14

     For a couple of decades I have been chasing stories of pictures of the Roswell crash. I have been given the names of some of those who supposedly had pictures, talked to others who thought they might have seen pictures, and tried to find those who might have taken pictures as part of the official investigation. In this I have failed, other than finding lots of pictures of alien bodies, all of which seem to be traced to hoaxes, frauds and science fiction movies.

I have not seen the Roswell slides but have heard descriptions of what they show as many of us have. I know a little about how they were discovered and who owns them now, but I have not been involved in the investigation of them. I know that Tom Carey said that they have been dated to 1947, but I don’t know how that dating was accomplished, I don’t know how accurate it might be, and I’m not sure of the relevance of it.

All of this, however, set me to thinking. If the slides were made in 1947, as has been alleged, then what was the motivation for it, if it was a hoax? In other words, why would someone in 1947 make something like that? What would be the purpose?

Then, taking this line of speculation further, and I must point out this is all speculation now, were there any flying saucer cases that hinted at such things, other than Roswell? Well, yes there were. There were many reports of flying saucer crashes, all of them, other than Roswell, seemed to be invention by the participants and few of them talked of alien creatures.

There is one, though, that reached a wide national audience in the late 1940s, and that is, of course, Aztec. Now, I think Aztec was a hoax created by two con men who were attempting to sell some cockamamie metal detector or mineral detector and were claiming that alien technology had been used to create the machine. That doesn’t matter right now. What is important are pictures and that does relate to Roswell.

According to Scott Ramsey in The Aztec Incident, some guy named McLaughlin, had pictures of a flying saucer crash, and according to documentation found by Ramsey, it relates specifically to Aztec. This document doesn’t prove that there was a crash at Aztec, only that some guy was attempting to sell pictures that he alleged were taken at the crash site. The document was dated October 9, 1950.

Now the question seems to be what do the pictures show, if there were, in fact pictures. The only description available is that they show the crash which would imply that they were taken in the field and not inside a building or of a body on a Gurney. If there were bodies lying around, it would seem that pictures of them would have been taken, but without a description, we just don’t know.

Here’s the thing… This is a story about the Aztec crash, and the desire for evidence of it… Newton carried around some little bits of metal that he claimed came from the crash… and that tale would be enhanced if there were pictures of bodies. Someone might have conjured them up as further evidence of the Aztec crash.

What I’m saying is that here we have a motive for the invention of the pictures in the right time frame. We aren’t locked into 1947 and pictures created in 1948 or 1950 for that matter, could have been taken with film made in 1947. I simply don’t know enough about how the dating was done to know how close it is. I suspect the best they could do was tell us that the film was processed in the correct era, give or take a couple of years, but I just don’t know.

I could point out many of the parallels here. The land where the Aztec crash is claimed to have happened is oil land so that people from Midland involved in oil could have been there just as they could have been over in Roswell. The Aztec crash is alleged to have taken place within months of the Roswell crash, both were in New Mexico, but only Aztec got any real publicity in the late 1940s and early 1950s.

Please don’t misunderstand here. I’m not saying that we can now elevate the Aztec crash to the level of Roswell. I think the evidence is pretty clear. Aztec was a hoax that did include claims of physical evidence. It is not outside the realm of possibility that someone created pictures of alien creatures in an attempt to validate Aztec, and the documentation clearly mentions Aztec.

There are two flaws in my theory. One is that I don’t know if anyone ever saw the alleged pictures of the Aztec crash. The man who had them apparently never showed up for the sale and the documentation that relates to it makes it clear that the pictures were never shown.

Two: According to what Tom said, the slides relate to Roswell and have nothing to do with Aztec and if they can be dated precisely, that would tend to rule out Aztec. I just don’t know exactly what the slides show. All I know at this point is that the connection to Roswell seems a little thin, at least according to what Tom said recently (and the connection to Aztec is even thinner). Tom and Don Schmitt have a witness, who isn’t named (and given the nature of the UFO field, I’m not at all surprised that they wish to protect him) who says the creature on the slides resembles those he saw in 1947 at Roswell.

Here’s where I am on this. There are slides of some sort of creature. These slides are alleged to have been exposed in 1947, though I don’t know how firm that information is. There is a story, backed up by documentation, which says someone was trying to sell pictures of the Aztec crash in 1950. There is no reason to assume that these Aztec pictures have anything to do with the Roswell slides that Tom was talking about. I am just suggesting that there was stuff going on back then that could lead to someone creating the slides for Aztec. I’m not saying that it happened only that it could have.

The one major caveat is that I don’t know how accurate the dating of the slides is. If they can be shown to have been taken and processed in 1947, then Aztec is not an issue. If the dating isn’t that precise, then other evidence, which Tom and Don might possess, could eliminate Aztec as a possibility.

Here I’m as guilty as so many others. Speculation without a solid foundation, but then, not much has been offered in the way of evidence here and that leaves the door open to all this speculation.

Tuesday, October 28, 2014

MJ-12: The Only Fiction is The Majestic 12 Documents, Declares, Randle

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By Kevin Randle
The UFO Chronicles
10-27-14

    I don’t like wasting time on the fictional MJ-12 documents. Clouds of nonsense thrown out, but little in the way of actual documentation. I didn’t mention Dr. Wescott’s impressive academic background because it wasn’t relevant to the discussion… which was that he suggested that he was unable to prove or disprove that Hillenkoetter was the author of the EBD.

We are told that neither the Aztec nor the Plains of San Agustin crash were mentioned because they didn’t get news coverage. What a ridiculous idea, unless we are to believe that the authors of the EBD had to rely on the news media for their leads to these events. But wait, wasn’t there a bestselling book, Behind the Flying Saucers published in 1950 that did cover the Aztec crash, not to mention articles that appeared in the Denver newspapers?…

Or that the El Indio – Guerrero is not mentioned in any news coverage or articles until the late 1960s, but it somehow managed to make it into the EBD.

Or that the El Indio – Guerrero crash is the fatal flaw because it didn’t happen, was conceived in the late 1960s by a man whose military record is also falsified and if that event didn’t take place, then how could it appear in a document for the president in 1952?

Or that the whole date format, that is zero, day, month, comma, year (06 December, 1950) has not been found on any document that is of American creation but that Bill Moore habitually used this format… what an interesting coincidence. Yes, I noticed that Stan did not represent that date as it appeared in the EBD.

And if we wish to talk about writing fiction, which Stan insists on bringing up repeatedly, let’s talk about Gerald Anderson’s “black” sergeant and the validation Stan created for it by inserting that word into an interview of Bill Brazel conducted by Don Schmitt and me and recorded on audio tape… and Bill Brazel’s denial that any of the service members who visited him were black. This was an invention made to corroborate the rapidly failing tales told by Anderson… who did take Dr. Buskirk’s Anthropology class. What did the school officials tell Stan when he spoke with them in 1991? Talk about writing fiction.

And before I forget, I have been to many, many archives, research centers, museums and libraries in my search for the truth. That list is more than 20 such institutions, by the way. Oh, I have held security clearances in both industry and the military and for more than fifteen years held a top secret clearance, but I wonder if these points are relevant when discussing the fraudulent MJ-12 documents.

Please tell us Stan, why you failed to mention Project Aquarius, Bill Moore’s plan to create a Roswell document, or his book written with Bob Pratt and probably Richard Doty called, Majik -12… isn’t that somewhat worrisome? The whole MJ-12 thing laid out in a work of fiction?

As for provenance, those leaking classified material into the mainstream are often identified even if it means prosecution… and with Watergate, Deep Throat was not known to the general public, but Woodward (and I think Ben Bradlee) knew who he was and where he worked or to put a point on it, they knew the provenance of the information. Stan’s ridiculous claim to that the leakers would remain hidden to avoid prosecution is not born out in the history of such actions. They provide the provenance to prove that the documents leaked are authentic… and there is no such verification for the EBD. The trail ends with the fiction created by Bill Moore.

Visit Kevin's Site . . .

See Also:

MJ-12: No Proof that TF, CT, or EBD Documents are Fraudulent, Argues Friedman

Roger Wescott, Roscoe Hillenkoetter and MJ-12

MJ-12: The Hoax That Quickly Became a Disinformation Operation

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Alejandro Rojas Rebukes Stanton Friedman

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle's Final Word on The Matter?

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Stanton Friedman Counters

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle Queries Stanton Friedman

MJ-12: Stanton Friedman Fires Back; The Disputation with Kevin Randle Continues ...

MJ-12: Kevin Randle Rails Against Stanton Friedman's Rebuttal

MJ-12: Alejandro Rojas Accepts Stanton Friedman's Debate Challenge

MJ-12: Renowned Ufologist, Stanton Friedman Issues Debate Challenge To Naysayers

More False Claims About Majestic 12

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 1

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 2

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 3

"Appendix A: The Myth of MJ-12" An Annotated Commentary By Barry Greenwood

Operation Bird Droppings
The MJ-12 Saga Continues:


UPDATE 1:
Operation Bird Droppings
The MJ-12 Saga Continues:


Bird Droppings and MJ-12, Stanton Friedman Responds . . .

An Historical Curio re "MJ-12"





SHARE YOUR UFO EXPERIENCE

Monday, October 20, 2014

“The Greatest Enemy of The UFO Community is The UFO Community” | MJ-12

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Frank Thayer / MJ-12

“The Greatest Enemy of The UFO Community is The UFO Community” | MJ-12


By Frank Thayer
The UFO Chronicles
10-19-14

    The greatest enemy of the UFO community is…the UFO community. Such has been said by many, most lately by Scott Ramsey, of prominence in The Aztec Incident. The useful debate in “The UFO Chronicles” including contributions by Alejandro Rojas, Kevin Randle, Stanton Friedman, Barry Greenwood et al., perhaps misses a major point.

First of all, Friedman did the most thorough forensic examination and research into the photographs of the MJ-12 documents, just as he studied the Special Operations Manual SOM1-01. The disinformation question is not whether a particular document is genuine, but rather why these documents came into public view in the first place. Genuine documents are very valuable in promoting disinformation.

Because I teach propaganda, I emphasize that disinformation is a category of the propaganda mission with a specific purpose. Disinformation is designed to create confusion and to reduce certainty. The original discovery of the MJ-12 documents as a roll of undeveloped black and white film, now connected to AFOSI agent Richard Doty, and received by William Moore and Jaime Shandera must be studied in light of the motives of the government. There was a need to create public uncertainty after Friedman first interviewed Jesse Marcel and the Roswell Incident overcame decades of government suppression to become a reality firmly lodged in modern public awareness.

Good disinformation requires information credibility and source deniability. So why fabricate information that will easily be disproved over time? The ludicrous crash dummy story about Roswell is one of those, and Donald Menzel’s books on flying saucers, such as Flying Saucers—Myth—Truth—History, are another. The MJ-12 documents, however, and the special operations manual on the other hand “have legs,” in that they continue to persuade students of flying saucer reality and to spark debate.

If the MJ-12 documents or SOM1–1 (the latter proved by Friedman not to have been set in a computer type font) are fake, they required highly placed sources to create them and the deep pocket resources available only to the Intelligence community in order to make the documents credible. It is very expensive to set type and print a manual identical to the military manuals of the day printed by the U.S. Government’s printing office. Disinformation goals could be achieved by supplying carefully chosen original documents and photos of a real secret government publication. Without a pre-emptive strike, eventually MJ-12, by whatever name it was known, would have surfaced, so the back door release of selected documents could muddy the flying saucer water permanently.

Some would say that Doty was a whistleblower trying to alert the public to the reality of flying saucer reality, but experience leads us to believe that he was just doing his job for AFOSI. After all, Phillip Klass, Karl Pflock, Joe Nickell, James McGaha, Michael Shermer, and a coterie of others, have or had a military or intelligence background. Some of their publications are likely, but not proved, to be supported by government funds. Thus, the disinformation function is well staffed and well supported in the United States.

As for AFOSI, The Aztec Incident: Recovery at Hart Canyon (see the entire interrogation of AFOSI with Denver radio station advertising executive George Koehler) shows how seriously the Air Force was in tracking down the leaks of the Aztec flying disc recovery. Even today’s current tracking of Ebola contagion is not as thorough as the Air Force was in 1949–1950 in covering the tracks leading from Aztec. However the disinformation masterpiece was in discrediting Silas Newton and Leo GeBauer in an irrelevant business deal gone bad, and using a Denver courtroom to destroy the credibility of the first published story of a flying saucer recovery.

The MJ-12 documents were not released to the New York Times, as would befit a “Three Days of the Condor” type mission, starring Robert Redford. After all, that would never promulgate such documents, and the Associated Press by policy will not put UFO stories on the wire in most cases. Thus, the release of documents through an ambivalent source was far more successful. The real and the false are carefully blended to reduce certainty. This may be harmless, but in the Paul Bennewitz case, it proved devastating to a man’s life. In this latter case, Richard Doty may have been the agent who helped destroy Bennewitz’s well being, all through AFOSI disinformation.

The argument over MJ-12 will never be concluded, and a large segment of those who study flying saucers will continue to accept the scholarship of Stanton Friedman whose scholarship creates high confidence in the reality of the documents. Most of the naysayers fall back on ad hominem attacks that are the last resort of those who have lost the factual argument.

The character or credibility of Richard Doty, William Moore, Jaime Shandera is of minor importance. The essential reality of the documents, though they are only photographs of documents, must be the only focus of the research, and Stanton Friedman is the only researcher who thoroughly and minutely examined all of the data available in those black and white images. Both the MJ-12 papers and SOM1–1 remain today as credible evidence—and the arguments against them will be advanced as well, even on this even-handed forum. The UFO community, for its part, will continue to ravage its own members and eat its young.

* Frank Thayer is the co-author The Aztec Incident: Recovery at Hart Canyon

Visit Frank's web-site . . .

See Also:

MJ-12: The Hoax That Quickly Became a Disinformation Operation

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Alejandro Rojas Rebukes Stanton Friedman

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle's Final Word on The Matter?

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Stanton Friedman Counters

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle Queries Stanton Friedman

MJ-12: Stanton Friedman Fires Back; The Disputation with Kevin Randle Continues ...

MJ-12: Kevin Randle Rails Against Stanton Friedman's Rebuttal

MJ-12: Alejandro Rojas Accepts Stanton Friedman's Debate Challenge

MJ-12: Renowned Ufologist, Stanton Friedman Issues Debate Challenge To Naysayers

More False Claims About Majestic 12

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 1

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 2

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 3

"Appendix A: The Myth of MJ-12" An Annotated Commentary By Barry Greenwood

Operation Bird Droppings
The MJ-12 Saga Continues:


UPDATE 1:
Operation Bird Droppings
The MJ-12 Saga Continues:


Bird Droppings and MJ-12, Stanton Friedman Responds . . .

An Historical Curio re "MJ-12"





SHARE YOUR UFO EXPERIENCE

Thursday, October 09, 2014

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle Queries Stanton Friedman

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MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle Queries Stanton Friedman

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle Queries Stanton Friedman


By Kevin Randle
The UFO Chronicles
© 10-7-14

     Seriously? You trot out that old chestnut? Do you make the same comments about writing fiction to Bruce Maccabee, Nick Pope or Whitley Streiber or is it just me? Are you following the propagandist rule that if you say something loud enough and long enough someone will believe you?

I notice you continue to dodge the questions. You have no explanation for the lack of provenance. This is a major flaw.

Since you bring up Kaufmann, how about Gerald Anderson? He forged a document and admitted that. You know the diary he submitted about the 1947 event was written in ink that didn’t exist prior to 1973. And he took the class from Winfred Buskirk. How do I know? Because I was able to access the records before Anderson demanded that they be closed and those records proved that Anderson took Buskirk’s Anthropology course. I can say that now because those who helped me have retired. It was the same information that Buskirk received when he called his friends at Albuquerque High School and told me to check it out myself.

The December 6, 1950, alert has no relevance. It was based on a possible intrusion of American airspace by an unknown aircraft. It lasted about an hour and had nothing to do with a crash of anything in Mexico. Zechel changed the date of Willingham’s case for that very reason… and you have no idea what sources of information I have been able to tap.

But this second crash mentioned is the fatal flaw because it never happened outside of the mind of Robert Willingham. He invented the tale and this is the only source of information about it, unless, of course, you have something to prove it did happen.

And you haven’t bothered with the altered Truman signature on the memo. You forgot to mention that you approached Peter Tytell, a questioned document expert who told you to wash your hands of MJ-12 because the clues he found screamed hoax. And you know that he has not produced a written report because no one has paid his fee but anyone who talks to him learns the same things about that investigation.

You still haven’t commented on Bill Moore’s idea of creating a Roswell document. Nor have you commented on the original plan being laid out in his book Majik-12. Nor that Moore said the EBD contained disinformation which is, of course, a nice way to say that it filled with lies. And you haven’t mentioned Moore’s “confession” in Las Vegas that has badly damaged his credibility, which in turn, damages MJ-12. (And don’t ask how because it was Moore who provided the EBD to the world.)

No matter how many times you say it, you still haven’t been able to explain some of the major discrepancies. You are reduced to asking how the forger could have known some obscure facts when the answer is simple… blind luck. He also missed on some very big items.

Oh, by the way, drafts of highly classified documents are normally destroyed once the final is completed. They also destroy the notes, the typewriter ribbons and even the blank pages left on note pads to ensure that the information isn’t compromised. Until you can find some actual evidence of authenticity for the MJ-12 documents, these conversations go almost nowhere.