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In a remarkable July 2025 interview with Chris Lehto
on "Lehto Files," former CIA Operations Officer Jim Semivan delivered
what may be the most candid assessment of the UAP phenomenon ever
provided by a senior intelligence official. After 34 years in the CIA,
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By The UFO Chronicles
2025
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including 25 years as an operations officer in the National Clandestine Service,
Semivan's central message is both sobering and profound: "We don't know what the
phenomenon is."
This isn't a statement born of ignorance, but rather the honest admission of
someone who has seen classified evidence, has interacted with people in the legacy programs studying
UAPs for eight decades, and personally experienced the phenomenon that has
baffled the world's most sophisticated intelligence apparatus.
The Life-Changing Encounter
Semivan's journey from UAP skeptic to insider began with a personal experience
in the early 1990s that fundamentally altered his worldview. What he describes
as a "typical encounter" involved classic abduction scenario elements:
awakening immobilized in bed to find three entities at the foot of his bed,
described as resembling "Bibendum" (the Michelin tire man) but in black armor
rather than white. The experience included fragmented memories of being
outside his house with his wife, observing three orbs in the sky that merged
into one before shooting away.
More significantly, both Semivan and his wife experienced unexplained physical
effects. His wife suffered from unexplained bleeding for 17 days, while
Semivan discovered a perfectly round hole "the size of a pencil eraser" on the
back of his neck. When he shared this experience with a deep-cover CIA
officer, the colleague immediately asked about bleeding and neck marks,
revealing an internal awareness within the intelligence community about such
phenomena.
This encounter connected Semivan to what he describes as "the invisible
college" - a network of intelligence professionals, military personnel, and
scientists who have been quietly studying UAPs within the government for
decades.
The Intelligence Community's Eight-Decade Struggle
Perhaps the most revelatory aspect of Semivan's testimony concerns the
intelligence community's long-standing engagement with UAPs. According to
Semivan, the phenomenon has been studied by government programs since the
1940s, with the CIA and Air Force taking the lead after President Truman's
National Defense Act of 1947. The Roswell incident, occurring near a nuclear
facility, marked the beginning of what would become an eight-decade
investigation.
The startling revelation: despite all this time, resources, and access to
classified evidence, the intelligence community remains fundamentally baffled.
Semivan emphasizes that even those with "cosmic clearances" - the highest
levels of security access - admit they don't understand the phenomenon. They
may possess "downed craft" and "startling" photographic evidence, but the
essential nature of what they're dealing with remains a mystery.
The Phenomenon as a "Wicked Problem"
Semivan characterizes UAPs as the ultimate "wicked problem" - a term from
systems theory describing issues with so many interconnected elements that
they become essentially unsolvable1. Unlike poverty or climate change, which
are complex but theoretically addressable, the UAP phenomenon presents
challenges that transcend our current scientific, philosophical, and
sociological frameworks.
The phenomenon appears to be multidisciplinary, involving not just aerospace
technology but consciousness, quantum mechanics, biology, sociology, and
spirituality. It demonstrates what Semivan describes as "25th-century physics"
to our 21st-century understanding. The entities involved appear to possess
capabilities that suggest reality itself might be malleable, including the
ability to:
• Control human consciousness and plant memories
• Operate with apparent omniscience
• Manipulate physical reality in ways that defy known physics
• Remain "classically indifferent" to human concerns while demonstrating
godlike capabilities
The Catastrophic Disclosure Dilemma
One of the most thought-provoking aspects of Semivan's testimony concerns the
dangers of disclosure. He distinguishes between "limited disclosure" and
"catastrophic disclosure," with the latter involving a presidential
announcement revealing the full extent of government knowledge about non-human
intelligences.
The potential consequences of such disclosure are staggering. Semivan cites
studies suggesting that if 25% of the population becomes sick, ill, or simply
disassociates from reality, civilization could collapse - food production
would cease, essential services would fail, and social order would break down.
The psychological impact of learning that humanity is not at the top of the
food chain, that we may be viewed as "property" by superior intelligences,
could be devastating.
Furthermore, catastrophic disclosure would create an information vacuum that
would be filled by unreliable sources. Without complete answers from the
government, public figures, experiencers, and various media personalities
would shape the narrative, potentially creating "new religions" based on
incomplete or inaccurate information.
The Phenomenon's Control Over Disclosure
Perhaps most unsettling is Semivan's suggestion that the phenomenon itself may
be controlling the disclosure process. He describes the entities as
"classically indifferent" to humanity while possessing capabilities that
appear godlike. This indifference, combined with their apparent control over
when and how they reveal themselves, suggests that any disclosure timeline may
not be entirely in human hands.
The phenomenon's relationship with nuclear technology is particularly
concerning. Semivan notes its "affinity for nuclear material," pointing to
incidents at nuclear facilities worldwide. This pattern suggests either a
monitoring function or a more active intervention in human affairs related to
our most destructive capabilities.
The Deeper Reality Question
Semivan's most philosophical observations concern the nature of reality
itself. Drawing parallels to quantum mechanics, he suggests that our
understanding of physical reality may be fundamentally flawed. If quantum
physicists tell us that space is mostly empty and reality is based on
probabilities rather than mechanistic certainties, what does this say about
the nature of consciousness and existence?
The phenomenon appears to exist at the intersection of the physical and
consciousness, suggesting that our materialistic, mechanistic worldview may be
incomplete. Some individuals, through mystical experiences or psychedelic
substances like DMT, seem to access similar non-ordinary states of
consciousness where contact with non-human intelligence occurs.
The Positive Potential of Disclosure
Despite his concerns about catastrophic disclosure, Semivan acknowledges
significant potential benefits. Full disclosure could:
• Generate entirely new academic disciplines • Revolutionize our understanding
of physics, consciousness, and reality
• Provide humanity with its "real history" and birthright to truth
• Unite humanity against an external challenge (echoing Ronald Reagan's famous
speculation)
• Validate the experiences of countless individuals who have encountered the
phenomenon
The challenge lies in achieving these benefits while minimizing the risks of
social collapse and psychological trauma.
The Intelligence Professional's Perspective
Throughout the interview, Semivan provides insights into the culture and
operations of the CIA that illuminate why the UAP issue has been handled as it
has. The intelligence community operates on a strict need-to-know basis, with
information compartmentalized to prevent unauthorized disclosure. Presidents
typically receive general briefings but may not access the most classified
"second part" of briefings without extensive waivers and commitments.
The CIA's mission to "prevent another Pearl Harbor" means that phenomena
demonstrating superior capabilities must be studied, regardless of how little
they're understood. However, the agency's inability to develop effective
responses or countermeasures after eight decades of study speaks to the
phenomenon's truly anomalous nature.
A Call for Cautious Courage
Semivan's ultimate position is one of cautious support for disclosure. He
doesn't oppose revealing the truth but emphasizes the need for responsible
management of the process. He quotes T.S. Eliot: "Humankind cannot bear very
much reality", suggesting that the timing and method of disclosure are crucial
considerations.
His advice to researchers and podcasters like Lehto is to continue their work,
as open dialogue is essential for preparing humanity for whatever revelations
may come. He advocates for exploring "corollary areas" - mysticism,
consciousness studies, near-death experiences, and other phenomena that might
provide context for understanding our place in a larger, more complex reality.
The Meaning of Being Human
In concluding his remarkable testimony, Semivan reflects on what it means to
be human in the face of such overwhelming mysteries. Drawing from Aldous
Huxley's deathbed words, he emphasizes the importance of kindness and
compassion. Perhaps in acknowledging our limitations and embracing our
humanity, we can better prepare for whatever truths about the phenomenon may
eventually emerge.
Conclusion: The Honest Unknown
Jim Semivan's interview represents a watershed moment in UAP disclosure - not
because it provides definitive answers, but because it offers something
perhaps more valuable: an honest assessment of the limits of human knowledge
when confronted with the truly unknown. After 34 years in the CIA and decades
of studying the phenomenon, his central message remains: "We don't know what
the phenomenon is."
This admission, coming from someone with access to the most classified
information available, should humble us all. It suggests that the path forward
requires not just scientific rigor and government transparency, but also
philosophical humility and psychological preparation for realities that may
challenge our most fundamental assumptions about existence itself.
The phenomenon, whatever it is, appears to be both ancient and ongoing, both
physical and consciousness-related, both indifferent to humanity and deeply
involved in our affairs. Understanding it may require not just new science,
but new ways of thinking about reality, consciousness, and our place in the
cosmos.
As Semivan suggests, we may be living in what he calls a "consensus reality"
rather than the true reality. The question is whether humanity is ready to
discover what lies beyond the veil of our current understanding - and whether
we can handle the truth when it finally emerges.
