THE UFO CHRONICLES

Showing posts with label Roswell Fire Department. Show all posts

Friday, July 17, 2015

Lee Reeves and the Roswell UFO Crash

Dan Dwyer and members of the Roswell Fire Department

By Kevin Randle
A Different Perspective
7-13-15

I have been asked about the story of Lee Reeves who supposedly accompanied Dan Dwyer out to the crash site where the alien creatures were found. Reeves’ tale appears in Witness to Roswell where it says, “When the call came in to the fire station that there had been a crash north of town, Dan Dwyer and Lee Reeves were dispatched with the station’s “tanker” (a pickup truck with a large, cylindrical water tank in the back) to the crash site. Arriving before the military could secure the site, Dwyer and Reeves got to see what had crashed. It wasn’t an airplane at all, but an egg-shaped vessel of some sort that they did not recognize. And the bodies! ...”

From that point, Carey and Schmitt described, from Dwyer’s point of view (which is not to say they were quoting him, only using information that had been supplied by Frankie Rowe about what her father had said), that the creatures were small and that eventually Dwyer saw one that was still alive. When he got home that night, he told the family what he had seen and was asked what the creatures looked like. His “answer was succinct, ‘Child of the Earth,’” which is another name for the Jerusalem Cricket. That statement has an endnote that says, “Son (anonymity requested) of Dr. Foster’s housekeeper (anonymity requested), personal interview, 1992.”

Frankie Rowe

That endnote tells us nothing and seems to reference a tale told later in that chapter of the book. It is clear from my interviews with Frankie Rowe that it was her father, Dan Dwyer, who made reference to the Child of the Earth. The description of seeing the two dead aliens and the single survivor is also from Frankie Rowe.

Lee Reeves, according to the information that I have, died in 1971 and therefore is not an original source for this information. He had been a laborer at the Malco Refinery in 1947, but he was also a member of the Roswell Police Department and had worked as a fireman at the Orchard Park prisoner of war camp south of Roswell and for the city of Roswell Fire Department at some time, so he did have a connection there.

The trouble arises when the testimony of J. C. Smith, a firefighter in Roswell in 1947 is recalled. He was first interviewed by Karl Pflock and Smith made it clear in that interview that the Roswell Fire Department had not made a run out to the crash site, even in a piece of make-shift firefighting equipment.

Later when Tony Bragalia and I interviewed Smith separately, he made it absolutely clear that the fire department had not gone to the crash site. When I asked Smith if he had known Dan Dwyer, he said that he had and that Dwyer had gone out in his personal car. Smith told me that an Army colonel had come into the fire station and told them that they didn’t have to worry about the crash. They, the Army, would take care of it.

Dwyer, however, drove on out on his own, according to Smith, and not in one of the fire station’s vehicles and not with someone else. There was no discussion of Reeves at all until his story surfaced sometime in the last decade or so and was apparently relayed by his son, though there is nothing in the Carey and the Schmitt book to tell us that. It is my deduction given the information available.

Where does that leave us? Well, with the Dan Dwyer story, we learn from family members that he did go out there and said that he did see the bodies. We learn from J. C. Smith that Dwyer did go out there, but in his own car. We learn from the fire department records that there is nothing to suggest that any of the fire station’s equipment was dispatched on a run outside the city limits in the time frame necessary to corroborate the Reeves’ part of the story. Given the nature of the log, had some of their equipment been dispatched, there was no reason not to mention it. And we see that the Reeves’ tale is contradicted by the first-hand testimony of J. C. Smith.

It is my guess that the Reeves’ tale was told by one of the Reeves children or grandchildren, most likely Lewis Lee Reeves. When confronted with this sort of problem, the best case scenario is to rely on the first-hand testimony, which is Smith and which was told some sixty years after the event (which doesn’t make it true, only that it is of a better quality). The second-hand testimony is not properly sourced, is clearly not from a first-hand source, and is in conflict with other information and documentation. It now falls into the category of a “friend of a friend” tale and we all know how that works out… (and to prevent someone from stating the obvious here, I realize that it is technically the son of the man, but then, given the way the information is published, we really don’t know that either.)

Continue Reading . . .

See Also:

Roswell Fireman Confesses:
'It Was A Flying Saucer!'

MY UFO EXPERIENCE: New Witness Recounts His Father's Involvement with Roswell UFO Crash

The Truth Is Out There: Roswell Incident Recalled By Local Vet

REPORT YOUR UFO EXPERIENCE

Read Article »

Wednesday, March 18, 2009

Roswell Firemen and the Double Standard

By Kevin D. Randle
A Different Perspective
© 3-12-09

The double standard in UFO research is alive and well in Roswell. Tony Bragalia reports on what he and I learned from talking with one of the Roswell Firemen, and the first skeptical comment is that we can’t trust the memories of the old. The man shared with us his recollections of what happened in 1947 but he’s old (and fairly crotchety) so we can ignore this. His memories are all jumbled together, confused, confabulated, incoherent, and not based in reality.

First, let’s examine exactly what he told to Tony and what he told to me. He said that there had been no run out to the UFO crash site by the Roswell Fire Department. He didn’t say they didn’t make runs outside the city limits because we know that isn’t true. He said that there had been no run by the fire department for this specific event. Not that crash didn’t happen, but that they made no fire run.

Why not? A colonel from the base (though I suspect it might have been an officer of a lower grade simply because there weren’t that many colonels in Roswell, though the Roswell Fire Marshal was a lieutenant colonel) came out and ordered them not to go. Later the City Manager did the same thing by ordering the firemen not to discuss the events.

It also seems that the men of the Roswell Army Air Field fire department did respond to the crash. It was this fire department that went out to the site, and not the civilians.

When I spoke the to man, he was reluctant to talk, and if I approached a question from a slightly different angle he would tell me that he had already answered that question. This told me that he was still sharp at age 90 and that his mind had not faded as some might suggest.

One point that I made in an earlier post was this man had been interviewed by Karl Pflock, and his testimony had been used to discredit Frankie Rowe. When I asked if he knew Dan Dwyer, Frankie Rowe’s father, he said that he had. He said that Dan was a fireman (removing, again, this skeptical claim that it had been proven that Frankie Rowe’s father was not a fireman... why do I think that someone tried to find a fireman in that frame with the last name Rowe, never thinking that Frankie Rowe had once been Frankie Dwyer and when she married took her husband’s name?)

It was at this point the man told me, as he had Tony, that the colonel had come into the department to order them not to go, but that Frankie’s father, in his personal car (or POV for those of you with a military mind set) drove to the site. He said that Dan had told him the site was cordoned by armed guards, but that Dwyer had gotten close enough to see the craft. In other words, corroboration for Frankie Rowe.

Second, let’s talk about this double standard. We are told to be careful of information obtained from the very old. We are told of diseases of the mind that cause confusion in the elderly. We are told how they jumble their memories together and that we can ignore what they say, especially if it concerns the crash of an alien spacecraft.

On the other hand, these same skeptics have no trouble accepting the memories of the old if those memories conform to what they believe. Take Charles Moore, for example (and I don’t mean to pick on him, but the best example includes him). Moore is believed when he talks of the mythical Mogul Flight No. 4. We all know it happened because Moore told us he remembered losing track of the balloons up around Arabella and he was intrigued by the strange names of the places in New Mexico. So, contrary to the record that suggests Flight No. 4 was cancelled, and contrary to the information that the first successful flight in New Mexico was No. 5, we know there was a Flight No. 4 because Moore remembered losing track of it near Arabella.

So, why are these fifty and sixty-year-old memories of Moore accepted and those of the fireman rejected? How is it that Moore’s memory remained intact and that of the fireman has been jumbled by age and the publicity surrounding the Roswell crash? Why do we accept Moore’s claim of losing track of a flight near Arabella that we can’t establish took place but reject the information that corroborates the testimony of other witnesses?

Here’s the real point, however. Both Tony and I have interviewed a man who was in the Roswell Fire Department in July 1947. He said that they were told by a military representative told them not to go out there. He said that he was told the base fire department would handle it. He said that he learned, from Dwyer, that the craft was strange... suggesting that it was an unknown object from someplace else.

He has corroborated much of what Frankie Rowe said which means we can dispense with calling her a liar. She might be mistaken, she might be wrong, but she’s not a liar. Others are saying the same things she said so that her story is no longer stand alone (though her sister had corroborated part of it long ago). She has been vindicated.

Where do we go now? Well, I have the names of some of those who served in the base fire department and the search for them will begin. Of course, I realize that we are now more than sixty years from the event and the men who served in various capacities on the base would likely be in their late 80s and into their 90s, but we might get lucky. And we know of a couple of other places to begin searching for information. We now just have to take that step.

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Sunday, March 08, 2009

ROSWELL FIREMAN CONFESSES:
"IT WAS A FLYING SAUCER!"

By Anthony Bragalia
The UFO Iconoclast(s)
3-6-09

A firefighter who was with the Roswell Fire Department in 1947 has confirmed that the mysterious crash in the New Mexico desert that Summer was in fact of an unearthly craft!

The firefighter, now age 90, related stunning information to this author in a lengthy interview conducted recently. Respected Roswell author Kevin Randle also talked with the involved fireman to confirm the details of his story.

Some time ago I located the son of Rue Chrisman. Rue was the Fire Chief for the Roswell Fire Department in 1947, passing in 1981 at age 98. Chrisman's son explained to me that he knew that the town's Fire Department was somehow involved in the crash event. But the son was sparse in his conversation, not really wishing to elaborate. When pressed, the son said, "It did happen. There was a big coverup. The crash was real." I asked him how he knew of this, he paused and said, "I knew too many who knew."

I then asked him if any Roswell Firemen from 1947 are still alive. He replied that there was still "one left." He only mentioned the surviving fireman's surname as "Smith" and that one of his family members attends the same church as the involved fireman. Working with Kevin Randle, we identified and located the elderly gentleman and sought his testimony.

When reached, the Fireman was somewhat hesitant to discuss the matter. But after some "small talk" he warmed up to discussion. In a far-ranging conversation, the Fireman related these incredible details:

- An intimidating Colonel from Roswell Army Air Field visited the Roswell Fire Department immediately after the crash. The Colonel explained to the fireman who were at the department that day that an "unknown object from someplace else" had crashed in the desert outside Roswell. The Colonel warned that no one was to speak about the event to anyone ever. He also commanded them that nobody was to go out to the site or respond to any inquiries about the event. He explained that "everything was being handled by the military."

- Dan Dwyer, another Roswell Fire Department firefighter, did manage to go out to see the crash site, defying the Colonels orders. He confirms some of the details that Dan Dwyer's daughter, Frankie Rowe, has related in numerous interviews over the years. Frankie maintains that her father was able to view the craft and its occupants.

- Dan related to him that the area surrounding the crash was secured and cordoned by armed guards. Firemen went out there on their own volition, not as a "department." The Fireman did not want to talk too much about Dan Dwyer and Frankie Rowe though.

- The crash was of a craft not from Earth. The Fireman explained that it was not a balloon or any type of military experiment. He said that it was a "UFO." When I said to him that the term "UFO" was not used back then...he said it was "unidentified- a flying saucer." I asked him how he knew this and he stated that he was certain it was because of "what I was told at the time it happened." He explained that the Colonel did not know what the craft was or from where it came...and that there was great concern over the situation.

- The Roswell City Manager knew about the event and came into the Fire Department to personally and forcefully order the department to say nothing of the crash. Although the Fireman could not recall the City Manager's name at the time, I knew who it was. When I mentioned the name "C.M. Woodbury" to him, he said that did seem to be the name. As it happens, C.M. Woodbury would have been a very intimidating individual with whom to reckon. This is because C.M. Woodbury was known as the "Iron Major" - a decorated War vet of the notoriously effective 752nd Tank Battallion. Woodbury was also very close friends with Butch Blanchard, the Roswell Army Air Field base Commander.

- The Roswell Army Air Field (RAAF) base Fire Department was heavily involved in the crash recovery. The Fireman explained that "this is where the confusion comes from." The Fire Department that was most heavily involved in the crash retrieval was not so much the city fire department but the base's own Fire Department. He asserted that the RAAF firemen "knew the most" about the event. He was unfortunately unable to recall the names of these firemen.

- The Roswell Sheriff's Department was engaged in the coverup of the crash. The Fireman confirmed that Deputy Tommy Thompson was someone he knew at the Sherrif's office who was told to "keep the quiet."

- When asked how he "dealt with the fact that a craft from another world had crashed near Roswell," the Fireman replied that they had no idea what the implications were, "we just didn't really ever think about those kind of things at that time, but I do now."

The Fireman's testimony is nothing short of amazing. It confirms the unknown nature of the Roswell crash in 1947. It is, however, testimony. I appreciate the difficulties with "testimony." Testimony includes utterances that are presented as evidence for the claims they express. There is an inherent problem with all testimony. The speaker's reliability and sincerity are supported only by words rather than documents, photographs or other physical evidence. I appreciate that the Fireman's words are not sufficient to justify the belief that the crash at Roswell was extraterrestrial.

However, when testimony is given by an individual who is in fact who he says he is- and who did not come forward but instead was "found," we should pay attention to that testimony. And the truth of the event does not depend on taking the speaker's word alone as evidence of truth. But the Fireman's testimony is of special importance because he has never come forward publicly before with his story and he has no apparent reason or motivation to lie. The Fireman's full name will not be released until his death. He is in the last years of life, living out his days peacefully with close family. Author Kevin Randle also talked with the Fireman after I did, and agrees that a barrage of calls and contacts to the elderly man by skeptics and others would be a disservice to an old man.

It is said that when a man becomes a Fireman, his greatest act of bravery has been accomplished. In this case though, the old Fireman's greatest act of bravery was to tell what he knew about the Roswell event for the sake of history and truth.