Former CIA Insider’s Disclosures About UFOs: Why is This Link So Difficult to Post?

Well, I initially thought that it had happened again. Every time I had tried to post a link to ex-CIA executive Victor Marchetti’s 1979 article about the agency’s “very sensitive activities” relating to UFOs, my posts disappeared into some as-yet unexplained black hole in cyberspace. Most recently, when I tried to join the conversation at Roswell researcher Dr. Kevin Randle’s blog on the thread titled “Reports of the Roswell Crash before Jesse Marcel's Revelations”, Randle told me that he had not received my post. My comment follows here:

By Robert Hastings The UFO Chronicles 4-1-16

Regarding reports of crashed UFOs prior to the re-emergence of the Roswell affair, as recounted by Jesse Marcel in 1978, I offer comments by former CIA executive Victor Marchetti, who left the agency in 1969 and wrote the best-selling exposé,The CIA and The Cult of Intelligencewhich laid bare some of the highly-illegal activities in which the agency engaged during the first two decades of its existence. [He wrote,]

‘During my years in the CIA, UFOs were not a subject of common discussion. But neither were they treated in a disdainful or derisive manner, especially not by the agency’s scientists. Instead, the topic was rarely discussed at internal meetings. It seemed to fall into the category of ‘very sensitive activities’...There were, however, rumors at high levels of the CIA…..rumors of unexplained sightings by qualified observers, of strange signals being received by the National Security Agency...and even of little gray men whose ships had crashed, or had been shot down, being kept ‘on ice’ by the Air Force at FTD (Foreign Technology Division) at Wright-Patterson AF Base in Dayton, Ohio.’

Yes, this was published in 1979, in the May issue of the now-defunct Second Look magazine—well after Marcel’s disclosures—but, again, Marchetti had resigned from the CIA some ten years earlier, therefore, the rumors he had heard had to have been circulating prior to that time.

I will also note that Marchetti’s use of the word ‘rumors’ results from his own non-involvement in the ‘very sensitive activities’ CIA had in play relating to the UFO phenomenon. Consequently, whatever information Marchetti was privy to derived from informal and probably unauthorized conversations he had with others at CIA headquarters.

But if accounts of crashed UFOs and alien bodies in cold storage were indeed discussed at ‘high levels’ within the agency, one might reasonably infer that those stories were being taken seriously.

Again, Randle initially told me that he never received this post via the normal Google Blogger route and was only able to post my comment after I sent a back-up in the body of an email to him. Today, however, he told me that he had eventually located the post. So, in this instance, the difficulties I have had posting Marchetti’s revelations in the past do not seem to apply.

Nevertheless, the issues I described at the beginning of this article did in fact occur—which prompted my sending the back-up message to Randle in the first place. A year or so ago, when I tried to post Marchetti’s exposé at journalist Billy Cox’ UFO blog, I was unable to do so. Although my posting effort was seemingly uneventful, he never received it. After Billy indicated as much, I tried again, but the second attempt met the same fate. Cox subsequently tried to post my comments himself, to his own blog, after I sent them to him in an email. He later told me that he had encountered the same unexplained and unprecedented problem. He eventually ended up posting the full text of Marchetti’s article in a follow-up piece.

In any case, the key point here is that former high-level CIA insider Victor Marchetti’s important revelations about the agency’s “very sensitive activities” relating to UFOs—decades after it had supposedly lost interest in the phenomenon—deserve widespread public attention. Therefore, I am asking persons reading this piece to forward the Cox article containing Marchetti’s disclosures to as many UFO and social media websites as possible.

Visit Robert's Site ►

See Also:

How the CIA Views the UFO Phenomenon

Ex-CIA Official Says Stories of Crashed UFOs and Little Gray Men “on Ice” Discussed at a High-Level

The CIA’s Actual Involvement with UFOs: The Agency’s Public Statements are Deliberately Deceptive

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Standing Eight Count for the MJ-12

By Jack Brewer The UFO Trail 11-7-14

     Work of such researchers as Mark Pilkington has reignited interest in the infamous MJ-12 docs and surrounding circumstances. His book and resulting film, 'Mirage Men', significantly contributed to bringing some events that were dangerously nearing obscurity back to where they belong at the forefront of attention of the UFO community.

In 2007, scholar and author Dr. Michael Heiser facilitated professional linguistics testing on select MJ-12 docs. The work was conducted by qualified expert Dr. Carol Chaski and resulted in her assessment that the docs examined were almost certainly inauthentic. Chaski demonstrated an extremely high rate of accuracy in her previous evaluations, and it is all explained in depth in Heiser's full report. Interest in the report has been revived of late thanks to sites including Frank Warren's 'The UFO Chronicles', where an ongoing watchful eye is kept on the ever developing MJ-12 story.

Heiser recently published a post at his blog, 'UFO Religions', providing some resources for those interested in the saga. The post included a recommended video created by Alejandro Rojas of Open Minds:

Rojas' informative presentation included summaries of USAF documents he obtained that are worthy of ample consideration. The presentation also included the results of tracking down what appears to be the first mention of the term "Majestic Twelve" in the UFO community, and suffice it to say its origins were quite dubious.

Among other points of interest, the question was raised in the video as to why Richard Doty might have been involved in such disinformation operations, given his relative inexperience with the Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI). George P. Hansen addressed such circumstances in his book, 'The Trickster and the Paranormal'.

Hansen cited the case of Airman Simone Mendez, who was apparently called upon at a very young age and under questionable conditions to file a report on her attendance at a MUFON conference. The circumstances demonstrated official interest in the UFO community and implicated the AFOSI. Moreover, it implied the AFOSI might have targeted Mendez for recruitment - and perhaps individuals such as Doty as well - due to their inexperience and similar extenuating circumstances, not in spite of them. For much more detail, as well as additional information of interest surrounding Doty, please refer to Hansen's work.

Writer/researcher Ryan Dube published a number of posts on the MJ-12 saga and related circumstances, including his 2010 piece, 'John Alexander - Mr. Non-Lethal with Many Hands in Many Pots'. Dube explored the career path and ufology activities of Col. Alexander and other members of the intelligence community. After conducting an interview with Alexander, Dube concluded, "I am now even more suspicious than ever before that John was one of the integral players in the distribution effort of the MJ-12 memes upon the public domain, starting in the 1980's and continuing throughout the next several decades to today."

As recently as last year, Col. Alexander inserted himself once again in the controversial MJ-12 debate when he discussed the legendary group during an interview. Grant Cameron reported that he interpreted the statements of the colonel, which included that Alexander "had someone whisper" to him about MJ-12, could not be over emphasized. Cameron credited Alexander with confirming existence of the MJ-12 yet acknowledged that Alexander doubted the MJ-12 had anything to do with UFOs. Many disagreed with Cameron's take on the importance of the situation, apparently including Alexander, who later informed this writer that his remarks "did not change anything."

And what to our wondering eyes should appear but yet another chapter in the winding saga of the MJ-12. The latest from Kevin Randle informs us that Tony Bragalia came across a relevant lead on a doc. The two of them ran down provenance and, at least to Randle's satisfaction, have knocked the MJ-12 meme out for the count. It seems they indeed identified an operation that used key code words as described in the legendary Majestic operation, but the actual op in question had nothing to do with alleged UFO retrieval. That, according to Randle, confirms that the MJ-12 story of UFO lore is complete myth because code words are not duplicated in order to minimize risk of compromising the projects of which they are assigned. Not exactly sure why people would be whispering to Col. Alexander about such, instead of just describing it to him in an audible voice, but he could no doubt explain it in unassailable entirety if he ever decides he feels like it.

In the mean time, perhaps we might consider if the MJ-12 story has not always been floundering on the ropes. Was there ever a time that it drew any particularly credible support? How many of us ever really bought it?

Perhaps more importantly would be why the saga was so persistently propped up and promoted. Questions of origins and purposes become quite relevant, arguably more so than authenticity in some cases.

Continue Reading . . .

See Also:

MAJESTIC FOUND !

The Majestic Documents: A Forensic Linguistic Report (Pt 1)

MJ-12: The Only Fiction is The Majestic 12 Documents, Declares, Randle

MJ-12: No Proof that TF, CT, or EBD Documents are Fraudulent, Argues Friedman

Roger Wescott, Roscoe Hillenkoetter and MJ-12

MJ-12: The Hoax That Quickly Became a Disinformation Operation

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Alejandro Rojas Rebukes Stanton Friedman

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle's Final Word on The Matter?

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Stanton Friedman Counters

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle Queries Stanton Friedman

MJ-12: Stanton Friedman Fires Back; The Disputation with Kevin Randle Continues ...

MJ-12: Kevin Randle Rails Against Stanton Friedman's Rebuttal

MJ-12: Alejandro Rojas Accepts Stanton Friedman's Debate Challenge

MJ-12: Renowned Ufologist, Stanton Friedman Issues Debate Challenge To Naysayers

More False Claims About Majestic 12

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 1

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 2

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 3

"Appendix A: The Myth of MJ-12" An Annotated Commentary By Barry Greenwood

Operation Bird Droppings
The MJ-12 Saga Continues:

UPDATE 1:
Operation Bird Droppings
The MJ-12 Saga Continues:

Bird Droppings and MJ-12, Stanton Friedman Responds . . .

An Historical Curio re "MJ-12"

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MJ-12: No Proof that TF, CT, or EBD Documents are Fraudulent, Argues Friedman

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MJ-12: No Proof that TF, CT, or EBD Documents are Fraudulent, Argues Friedman

By Stanton Friedman The UFO Chronicles © 10-25-14

      First I want to thank Kevin Randle for providing another excellent example of the fictional approach to research. I notice he doesn’t mention Dr. Wescott’s outstanding background, details like having been a Rhodes Scholar, having been the president of the Linguistic Association of Canada and the US, having published almost 400 papers etc (there are 3 pages about him in my final Report on MJ-12). Second I did not use the term proof about his comments. This isn’t a math or physics problem. I arranged for papers to be given him. I would say he provided a preponderance of the evidence. I know of nobody better qualified to evaluate the question of whether RHH as opposed to some hoaxer prepared the EBD. Kevin also doesn’t mention that RHH was not some bungling character. He was an Annapolis graduate, had been the first director of the Central Intelligence Agency 1947-1950 and in late 1952 was head of the 3rd Naval District in New York. Washington is not far away. We know that Walter B. Smith, his successor at the CIA had been directed by Truman to coordinate Intelligence briefings for Ike (see his letter p. E-9 in my Report). I have suggested that Typing would have been done at the CIA.

Several other anti MJ-12 articles have recently been posted. But they seem more like fiction than fact; lots of scenarios, but little data or evidence. Let me first summarize where I stand:

I have been on the story for just under 30 years. I believe I have written more than anyone else and done more digging in archives. I had a security clearance for 14 years and have made many visits to 20 archives. I was lucky enough to have a research grant from the Fund for UFO research. For some crazy reason extremist Milton William Cooper said I worked for the CIA and the grant was actually from them!! In fact the Fund had sent out a questionnaire to see what its members thought needed researching. Majestic 12 was selected and I was asked to submit a proposal, which I did. The money was actually raised mostly from the Prince of Liechtenstein. I wrote a 100 + page report of my findings after visits to various Archives such as the Library of Congress Manuscript Division, The National Archives, the Truman and Eisenhower Libraries, the Harvard and Princeton Archives, etc. I included correspondence between myself and Phil Klass and a copy of his check to me for $1000.00 for proving him totally wrong about the typeface on the Cutler Twining memo—typical false reasoning on the part of the MJ-12 debunkers. Because he had all of 9 NSC items done in elite type, he thought it sensible to claim that all NSC memos were done in elite type. Not surprisingly he had never, before or since, been to the Eisenhower Library which had 250,000 pages of NSC material. He had offered to pay me $100.00 for every item meeting his criteria, up to a limit of 10. I sent 14. He paid me, but didn’t bother to tell anybody. There is also no Friedman file in his papers at the American Philosophical Society Library despite 20+ years of correspondence. I wrote a book TOP SECRET/MAJIC and many papers and responded to a host of false claims and assumptions.

Most of this goes back a long while. I spoke with family members of all the MJ-members except 1. I spoke in person with General Twining’s pilot, and his daughter and 2 sons; with Admiral Hillenkoetter’s family; with George Elsey who worked at the Truman library the entire time Truman was there, etc. I had concluded that there are 3, possibly four genuine documents (The Truman Forrestal Memo, The Cutler Twining Memo and the Eisenhower Briefing Document) and a host of phony ones. I believe I have responded to all the anti claims. My focus has been on a host of details that turned out not to be known at the time the documents were received and on a number of fictional claims and a bunch of details that would seem beyond the ken of a hoaxer. For example it was claimed that since the briefing Officer Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter was titled Admiral, that proved the document was false because he had only been a Rear Admiral. The attack neglected to mention that all 6 military guys (2 Army, 2 Navy, 2 AF) were referred to by generic ranks—not just Hillenkoetter. Furthermore, I gathered documents at the Ike Library proving that was standard practice. A good example was provided by documents written by Brigadier General Andrew Goodpaster (Ike’s Staff secretary) referring to himself as General Goodpaster, but signing as Brigadier General Goodpaster. Two archivists supported that view. He always used generic ranks when listing attendees. The claim was interesting fiction.

Here are some other false claims covered in detail in my book, report, and papers:

1. The date format, “18 November, 1952” supposedly violates the government style manual and therefore the EBD is phony. I found many examples at Archives of the use of this and several other date formats. This was pre- word processors. False claim.

2. Supposedly the security marking on the Cutler Twining memo of TOP SECRET RESTRICTED was never used by the government until after Ike was out of office. The GAO in its huge report on its search for Roswell Documents noted that they had indeed found examples of this on a number of classified documents even though they had been told (MJ 12) that it was not used. I couldn’t get copies because the documents were still classified. Why would a hoaxer not just use a plain TOP SECRET? False claim.

3. The unsigned Cutler Twining memo supposedly had to be phony because Cutler was out of the country on July 14, 1954. Actually, it would have been a phony if it had been signed or there was an “/s/” next to his typed name. Really smart hoaxer.

We didn’t find out, thanks to Bob Todd, that Cutler was gone until later. I also found at the Ike Library, Cutler’s instructions to James Lay, Exec. Sec. of the National Security Council, “to keep things moving out of my in basket while I am gone.” I also found that Lay met with Ike that day and had a phone conversation with Ike at 4:30PM. George Elsey, White House Aide under Truman, told me after looking at the documents, that of course Lay (who sat next to Cutler at all NSC Meetings) would have prepared a brief memo to General Twining in Cutler’s name. He also could find no problem with the 3 documents or the names of the people on the MJ-12 List.

4. Several objected strenuously to the surprising notion that debunker Dr. Donald Menzel could have been fully aware of UFOs at Roswell, and still be the loudest UFO debunker in the 1950s and 1960s.They objected to my saying he led a double life, despite my very surprising discovery in his papers at the Harvard Archives that he was tightly connected with the NSA, CIA, cryptology and many other intelligence activities—as noted by him to President Kennedy. The critics complained but, so far as I can tell, none went to the Harvard Archives or the Kennedy library. I spent days there and had to get permission from 3 people to see Menzel’s papers. How did anybody know to include him on Majestic 12? They just happened to pick an extraordinary claim that turned out to be true??

5. Some complained that since the EBD says the distance to the Roswell crash site was approximately 75 miles, rather than 62 by car or 100 by plane, it was a fraud. Since when does “approximately” mean precisely or exactly? The Briefing was Preliminary and hardly a guide to how to get to the crash site.

6. Several debunkers claimed vigorously that the documents are phony because all Top Secret code word documents must (they said) have Top Secret control numbers. Two archivists (Eisenhower and Marshall Archives) told me this was nonsense. They had many TS docs that did not have Control numbers. I had even published some earlier. False claim.

7. As an example of irrational thinking it was pointed out that I have claimed that there were crash retrievals in the Plains of San Agustin and Aztec. Since none are mentioned in the EBD either, they never happened or it is fraudulent because they aren’t mentioned. There was nothing that said this was a complete picture of crash retrievals. On the contrary, it says it is preliminary. Neither of these two got news coverage whereas Roswell did.

8. Since the EBD says there was a crash near El Indio-Guerero on 06 December 1950, and I have found no evidence of it, the document must be phony. It also says the burned wreckage was taken to Sandia. I know of no way to gain access to that information since Sandia is a very high security nuclear weapons Lab. False claim. It is certainly not true that absence of evidence is evidence for absence.

9. Robert Hastings has noted that I had agreed in Brazil that it is conceivable that some smart government agent could have done an enormous amount of research to create the documents. I obviously couldn’t prove a negative. Yes, but no one has provided any evidence or facts or names or details establishing that that was the case. I know from all the time, money and effort I’ve spent how difficult that would have been and I started with the documents. This, of course, doesn’t explain how somebody knew all the details that weren’t known until well after the documents were received. Psychic??

10. Many have noted that Rick Doty was based in Albuquerque and that the EBD was postmarked Albuquerque. Albuquerque is a large city, the home of Kirtland and Sandia. This proves nothing. Nor does the fact that he was involved in disinformation.

11. I have trouble believing that it is just a coincidence that September 24, 1947, the date of the TF memo, was the only date in an 8 month period that Truman, Bush and Forrestal met together. Or that the CT memo was coincidentally done while Cutler was out of the country and therefore was not signed . . . very smart hoaxer. Or that August 1, 1950, when W.B. Smith was named to replace James Forrestal on MJ-12 was the only date in the first 10 months of 1950 when Truman met with Smith. I list a bunch more “coincidences” in my Final Report.

Yes, Rick Doty was involved with false documents re Bennewitz etc., and was the first to mention MJ-12. Where is there any evidence that he faked EBD knowing enough to pass inspection? Has he been shown to have visited the Truman, or Eisenhower or Harvard Archives, etc? Klass made all kinds of claims but never went to the Ike Library. Have Greenwood, Hastings, Randle, Rojas been to the Presidential Libraries or the various Archives? Do they have any idea how much effort I’ve spent trying to show the documents were phony?

Cannot the debunkers recognize that provenance would have revealed the identity of the crime committing informant? Hoaxers normally do as little as possible to call attention to strange details, like the offset and different typeface in the numerical portion of the date on the TF, or the absence of signature on TC, or the period after the date on TF.

In short then, fiction is not the same as nonfiction. Research requires facts, data, and evidence. Nobody has shown any to establish that the TF,CT, or EBD were fraudulent Scenarios are interesting but not evidence.

I am still looking for a list of reasons that each of the 3 (CT, TF, EBD) are fraudulent. I have shown that a number of so-called MJ-12 documents were indeed false based on direct evidence. For example, in the Book “Wedemeyer Reports” by General Wedmeyer, I found three items that were retyped and Xeroxed to keep the hand written portions--clearly emulations. I found a number of other emulations, proofs of hoaxing. I have yet to see any for the 3 genuine ones.

Visit Stan's site . . .

See Also:

Roger Wescott, Roscoe Hillenkoetter and MJ-12

MJ-12: The Hoax That Quickly Became a Disinformation Operation

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Alejandro Rojas Rebukes Stanton Friedman

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle's Final Word on The Matter?

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Stanton Friedman Counters

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle Queries Stanton Friedman

MJ-12: Stanton Friedman Fires Back; The Disputation with Kevin Randle Continues ...

MJ-12: Kevin Randle Rails Against Stanton Friedman's Rebuttal

MJ-12: Alejandro Rojas Accepts Stanton Friedman's Debate Challenge

MJ-12: Renowned Ufologist, Stanton Friedman Issues Debate Challenge To Naysayers

More False Claims About Majestic 12

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 1

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 2

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 3

"Appendix A: The Myth of MJ-12" An Annotated Commentary By Barry Greenwood

Operation Bird Droppings
The MJ-12 Saga Continues:

UPDATE 1:
Operation Bird Droppings
The MJ-12 Saga Continues:

Bird Droppings and MJ-12, Stanton Friedman Responds . . .

An Historical Curio re "MJ-12"

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“The Greatest Enemy of The UFO Community is The UFO Community” | MJ-12

By Frank Thayer
The UFO Chronicles
10-19-14

    The greatest enemy of the UFO community is…the UFO community. Such has been said by many, most lately by Scott Ramsey, of prominence in The Aztec Incident. The useful debate in “The UFO Chronicles” including contributions by Alejandro Rojas, Kevin Randle, Stanton Friedman, Barry Greenwood et al., perhaps misses a major point.

First of all, Friedman did the most thorough forensic examination and research into the photographs of the MJ-12 documents, just as he studied the Special Operations Manual SOM1-01. The disinformation question is not whether a particular document is genuine, but rather why these documents came into public view in the first place. Genuine documents are very valuable in promoting disinformation.

Because I teach propaganda, I emphasize that disinformation is a category of the propaganda mission with a specific purpose. Disinformation is designed to create confusion and to reduce certainty. The original discovery of the MJ-12 documents as a roll of undeveloped black and white film, now connected to AFOSI agent Richard Doty, and received by William Moore and Jaime Shandera must be studied in light of the motives of the government. There was a need to create public uncertainty after Friedman first interviewed Jesse Marcel and the Roswell Incident overcame decades of government suppression to become a reality firmly lodged in modern public awareness.

Good disinformation requires information credibility and source deniability. So why fabricate information that will easily be disproved over time? The ludicrous crash dummy story about Roswell is one of those, and Donald Menzel’s books on flying saucers, such as Flying Saucers—Myth—Truth—History, are another. The MJ-12 documents, however, and the special operations manual on the other hand “have legs,” in that they continue to persuade students of flying saucer reality and to spark debate.

If the MJ-12 documents or SOM1–1 (the latter proved by Friedman not to have been set in a computer type font) are fake, they required highly placed sources to create them and the deep pocket resources available only to the Intelligence community in order to make the documents credible. It is very expensive to set type and print a manual identical to the military manuals of the day printed by the U.S. Government’s printing office. Disinformation goals could be achieved by supplying carefully chosen original documents and photos of a real secret government publication. Without a pre-emptive strike, eventually MJ-12, by whatever name it was known, would have surfaced, so the back door release of selected documents could muddy the flying saucer water permanently.

Some would say that Doty was a whistleblower trying to alert the public to the reality of flying saucer reality, but experience leads us to believe that he was just doing his job for AFOSI. After all, Phillip Klass, Karl Pflock, Joe Nickell, James McGaha, Michael Shermer, and a coterie of others, have or had a military or intelligence background. Some of their publications are likely, but not proved, to be supported by government funds. Thus, the disinformation function is well staffed and well supported in the United States.

As for AFOSI, The Aztec Incident: Recovery at Hart Canyon (see the entire interrogation of AFOSI with Denver radio station advertising executive George Koehler) shows how seriously the Air Force was in tracking down the leaks of the Aztec flying disc recovery. Even today’s current tracking of Ebola contagion is not as thorough as the Air Force was in 1949–1950 in covering the tracks leading from Aztec. However the disinformation masterpiece was in discrediting Silas Newton and Leo GeBauer in an irrelevant business deal gone bad, and using a Denver courtroom to destroy the credibility of the first published story of a flying saucer recovery.

The MJ-12 documents were not released to the New York Times, as would befit a “Three Days of the Condor” type mission, starring Robert Redford. After all, that would never promulgate such documents, and the Associated Press by policy will not put UFO stories on the wire in most cases. Thus, the release of documents through an ambivalent source was far more successful. The real and the false are carefully blended to reduce certainty. This may be harmless, but in the Paul Bennewitz case, it proved devastating to a man’s life. In this latter case, Richard Doty may have been the agent who helped destroy Bennewitz’s well being, all through AFOSI disinformation.

The argument over MJ-12 will never be concluded, and a large segment of those who study flying saucers will continue to accept the scholarship of Stanton Friedman whose scholarship creates high confidence in the reality of the documents. Most of the naysayers fall back on ad hominem attacks that are the last resort of those who have lost the factual argument.

The character or credibility of Richard Doty, William Moore, Jaime Shandera is of minor importance. The essential reality of the documents, though they are only photographs of documents, must be the only focus of the research, and Stanton Friedman is the only researcher who thoroughly and minutely examined all of the data available in those black and white images. Both the MJ-12 papers and SOM1–1 remain today as credible evidence—and the arguments against them will be advanced as well, even on this even-handed forum. The UFO community, for its part, will continue to ravage its own members and eat its young.

* Frank Thayer is the co-author The Aztec Incident: Recovery at Hart Canyon

Visit Frank's web-site . . .

See Also:

MJ-12: The Hoax That Quickly Became a Disinformation Operation

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Alejandro Rojas Rebukes Stanton Friedman

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle's Final Word on The Matter?

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Stanton Friedman Counters

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle Queries Stanton Friedman

MJ-12: Stanton Friedman Fires Back; The Disputation with Kevin Randle Continues ...

MJ-12: Kevin Randle Rails Against Stanton Friedman's Rebuttal

MJ-12: Alejandro Rojas Accepts Stanton Friedman's Debate Challenge

MJ-12: Renowned Ufologist, Stanton Friedman Issues Debate Challenge To Naysayers

More False Claims About Majestic 12

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 1

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 2

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 3

"Appendix A: The Myth of MJ-12" An Annotated Commentary By Barry Greenwood

Operation Bird Droppings
The MJ-12 Saga Continues:

UPDATE 1:
Operation Bird Droppings
The MJ-12 Saga Continues:

Bird Droppings and MJ-12, Stanton Friedman Responds . . .

An Historical Curio re "MJ-12"

SHARE YOUR UFO EXPERIENCE

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MJ-12 Debate Continues: Alejandro Rojas Rebukes Stanton Friedman

By Alejandro Rojas The UFO Chronicles © 10-9-14

     This is a strange message, because my research is about the origins of the documents. Stanton often expresses his frustration when people he debates have not reviewed his material. However, this message indicates that Stanton has not reviewed my research, which is on the origins of the MJ-12 documents, and how they were released to a group of individual who were involved with an admitted disinformation scandal.

Incidentally, some of these people were also Stanton's research partners. However, instead of discussing this sordid affair to help absolve himself of any association with the scandal, Stanton continues to ignore the scandal even took place. It appears Stanton is trying to do the same thing here. I argue that any full investigation of the case must include the circumstances surrounding how the public came to know of these documents. Something Stanton has not provided.

Stanton has admitted to me that Doty, an agent with the USAF Office of Special Investigations, was the first person to mention the term MJ-12 in a document Doty says was part of a disinformation campaign. He has also admitted that Doty is not to be trusted and has proven to be deceitful. Stanton has also admitted that his research partner at the time, William Moore, is not to be trusted. This was proven to be the case when Moore admitted to being part of Doty's disinformation campaign.

Much of Stanton's research on the MJ-12 documents was prior to anyone knowing Moore was working with Doty. I believe that Stanton is a man of high integrity, and, along with the rest of the UFO community, was a victim of this disinformation scandal.

It must be hard to know one has been chasing a wild goose for years, only to find that their own research partner was involved with setting the goose loose. I can understand that, but ignoring the events do not allow for a sufficient analysis of the situation.

I will be more than happy to discuss with Stanton some of the details of his relationship with the people involved with the disinformation scandal. Details he avoids sharing in public, but are pertinent to the field of Ufology. I would also like to discuss why he feels the fact that the documents were released amidst this scandal have no bearing on their validity. I also would like to discuss with him my view that no matter how long his list is, it does not prove that the documents were not disinformation, officially sanctioned by the government or otherwise.

See Also:

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Stanton Friedman Counters

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle Queries Stanton Friedman

MJ-12: Stanton Friedman Fires Back; The Disputation with Kevin Randle Continues ...

MJ-12: Kevin Randle Rails Against Stanton Friedman's Rebuttal

MJ-12: Alejandro Rojas Accepts Stanton Friedman's Debate Challenge

MJ-12: Renowned Ufologist, Stanton Friedman Issues Debate Challenge To Naysayers

More False Claims About Majestic 12

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 1

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 2

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 3

"Appendix A: The Myth of MJ-12" An Annotated Commentary By Barry Greenwood

SHARE YOUR UFO EXPERIENCE

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MJ-12 Debate Continues: Stanton Friedman Counters

By Stanton Friedman The UFO Chronicles © 10-8-14

Kevin:

     Thank you for once again demonstrating your illogicality and inaccuracy with regard to the MJ-12 documents. Your basic rule is: Absence of evidence is evidence for absence which is illogical. Let me be specific, though as you know from previous items I have written, I provided a long list of examples. You bring up Willingham again for reasons unknown. I have never said that his story proves anything. Of course I don't have any evidence that there was a saucer crash at el Indio Guerrero. on 06 December, 1950.The document says ...."By the time the search team arrived, what remained of the object had been almost totally incinerated. Such material as could be recovered was transported to the A.E.C. facility at Sandia, New Mexico, for study." That was a nuclear weapons lab. As you are well aware, I do not have access to classified information about the results of that study or anything else. That surely doesn't mean that there was no study done. I suspect that the search team was there because "the long trajectory" was observed on radar and would also have provided classified information.

You have described the response of Peter Tytel, a noted forensic Documents examiner to whom I had sent a copy of the EBD "it was just perfect because the whole thing of the twelve pages or however many pages it was. Most of the pages were blank pages with just five words written on them like TOP SECRET or Appendix A or something like that." The fact is the EBD was 7 pages (plus the TF memo) and only one (page 7) had just Appendix A on it. Strangely you did not even include that page in your book. You quoted Tytel's off hand remark that the typewriter was of much later vintage. A full professional evaluation by James Black paid for by Dr. Robert M Wood stated the typeface was from an Underwood Standard from May 1940.

Several authorities claimed that TOP SECRET Restricted was not used during Ike's terms. The GAO found examples and said so. Blind Luck? The date of the TF was the only day in a many month period when Truman, Bush and Forrestal met. Blind Luck? The hoaxer threw a dart at a dart board and found the one time when Cutler was out of the country so didn't sign the CT or put a /s/. Of course he blindly knew that Menzel would pass muster though nobody else did. He knew to put a period after the date on TF knowing that Bush always did. He knew that James Lay had been instructed to keep things moving out of Cutler's in Basket. George Elsey, who worked for Truman all the time he was President , said Lay would have written the memo for Cutler (after I pointed out Lay's instructions from Cutler and found that there was nothing wrong with the 3 documents, etc., ad nauseum). Also chose an unusual carbon paper but knew it would eventually pass muster.

Another example is that you claimed truly that nowhere did I find any mention of MJ-12 in Donald Menzel's papers ... no Marginal notes, no oblique references etc. Menzel according to his own words to Jack Kennedy had been connected to the NSA and its Navy predecessor for decades. I have seen no reference to this connection predating my discovery in his papers at the Harvard Archives. You expect him to have left classified notes and information lying around? There were no classified papers there. His secretary assured me that he was very careful about security. Remember that the 156 pages of NSA UFO documents finally released were classified TOP SECRET UMBRA and one could only read 1 line per page.

You are now claiming that Dr. Buskirk claimed that Gerald Anderson was in his anthro class.at Albuquerque High School. I have trouble believing that he did so claim. You will recall that I visited the high school and twice talked by phone to the student whom you claimed recalled Gerald from that class. He denied it even after I sent him and another student a copy of a picture of Gerald from the High School yearbook. Your evidence please—not your wishful thinking.

I have as you know, noted many pieces of data not known to be true until after we received the CT,TF, and EBD . How did a hoaxer know those?? Time travel such as invoked by the USAF when claiming Crash Test Dummies not dropped until 6 years after Roswell accounted for the Body stories? Why do you falsely claim that I said the TF signature "exactly matches" one on a Truman Bush letter? You made that up. I said "matches" not "exactly matches." That is as bad as Klass saying Letter 9 times for the TF MEMO and his falsely claiming Pica Type wasn't used at the NSC. He paid me $1000.00 for proving him wrong about that after I provided 14 examples.

Why don't you mention the findings of world class linguistics expert Dr. Roger Wescott who reviewed 27 examples of Hillenkoetter writings including the EBD and said "in my opinion there is no compelling reason to regard any of these communications as fraudulent or to believe that any of them were written by any one other than Hillenkoetter himself. This statement holds for the controversial presidential briefing memorandum of November 18, 1952 ...." You talk about drafts being destroyed. Onionskin copies were all over the place. None of the three is a draft. "Preliminary briefing" is not a draft.

The person who filmed the TOP SECRET MAJIC briefing and distributed the film to a person without a clearance or need to know was guilty of a crime. A hoaxer would have finally said gotcha. Provenance is a silly argument. Want a written confession, too? You have a solid military background, but still falsely claimed that calling Hillenkoetter Admiral (instead of rear admiral) meant the EBD was phony. You asked for another item by him with a signature. There is no signature by RHH on the EBD In fact it was standard practice to use generic ranks as you would have known if you had gone to the Ike Library. It is a lot closer to you than it is to me.
Time to throw in the towel. The 3 items are genuine.

See Also:

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle Queries Stanton Friedman

MJ-12: Stanton Friedman Fires Back; The Disputation with Kevin Randle Continues ...

MJ-12: Kevin Randle Rails Against Stanton Friedman's Rebuttal

MJ-12: Alejandro Rojas Accepts Stanton Friedman's Debate Challenge

MJ-12: Renowned Ufologist, Stanton Friedman Issues Debate Challenge To Naysayers

More False Claims About Majestic 12

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 1

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 2

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 3

"Appendix A: The Myth of MJ-12" An Annotated Commentary By Barry Greenwood

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MJ-12: Stanton Friedman Fires Back; The Disputation with Kevin Randle Continues ...

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By Stanton Friedman The UFO Chronicles © 9-30-14

     I have always had a grudging admiration for Kevin's ability to write fiction. Anybody who can write many dozens of novels deserves respect. I guess I can accept a smart computer that somehow says the opposite of the truth about the CT Memo. At least we both agree it is not signed and there is no /s/. But why not note that the absence of signature is a sign of genuineness? We didn't know until well after the memo was discovered that Cutler was out of the country at that time. Why didn't the supposed (mythical) hoaxer merely add one or the other?? He is accused of adding Truman's signature. Why accuse me of saying the latter was an exact match to the one on the Bush letter? It was Kevin not me that said "exact" match. I have accepted the official findings of forensic document examiner Black as stated to Dr. Robert M. Wood that it was appended because of the feathering. Ike might well have preferred documents with signatures. Even Karl Pflock agreed that the CIA could have copied the signature.

Yes, let us talk about provenance. What is the basis for the claim that all leaked documents have a provenance? In this case the Provider of the EBD was guilty of a crime. A hoaxer wasn’t. As Kevin knows full well photographing and distributing a TOP SECRET Restricted document to somebody without an appropriate security clearance and need-to-know is a violation of the law. Hoaxing generally is not. Why not just say "gotcha?!" Suppose the CTM was taken by one of the declassifers (all of whom had high level clearance) and put in a jacket pocket and then later placed in Box 189? Two step process. Nobody would tell me their names.

Yes, let's not argue about the distance to the crash site. We have a highly classified preliminary briefing about an extraordinarily important event which happened 5 years earlier. The approximate distance really doesn't matter. Which route was taken?

How did the (mythical) hoaxer know that, contrary to the official claims made, that TOP SECRET RESTRICTED was in use?? Psychic I guess. How did he know that Donald Menzel would pass muster as having a very high security clearance and a very long connection with the NSA … psychic I guess.

I never talk about Willingham. What is meant by "we believed"? As Tonto said to the Lone Ranger: what do you mean "we", white man? Why is it the fatal flaw? I know that I do not have access to classified files at Sandia or elsewhere and so far as I know, Kevin doesn't either. That he didn't find anything about an "El Indio- Guerrero" crash in the unclassified world means nothing. Any information about a crashed saucer recovered on December 6, 1950, and taken to Sandia would have been highly classified just as was any analysis of the Roswell, Plains of San Agustin, or Aztec crashes. December 6, 1950, was the date of a major security alert involving motion of an object(s) in the sky. Roswell and Kenneth Arnold were highly publicized events. The Plains and Aztec were not. I strongly recommend the outstanding and comprehensive research about Aztec done by Scott and Suzanne Ramsey as reported in "The Aztec Incident"... Bruce

Maccabee and Grant Cameron have written about the Dec.6, 1950 national security alert.

I don't think Kevin has provided some sort of statement that this preliminary briefing would provide a listing and details of all saucer crashes. The first one provides the basic data saying Man is not alone... an incredibly important statement. The Briefing of Ike at the Pentagon on November 18, 1952, only lasted under 50 minutes. As stated "It should be regarded as introductory to a full operations briefing intended to follow." Introductory surely doesn't mean comprehensive.

I certainly am not impressed by a kind of guilt by association with Richard Doty and the Aquarius documents. Let us look at the EBD, CT, and TF. No, I don't want to get into the false testimony of Frank Kaufmann and others. At least he admitted he had lied about taking Blanchard and Marcel to the Debris field. I still would like to know from those who say the 3 documents are phony and why they make that claim. How did anybody know the details that unexpectedly turned out to be true???

See Also:

MJ-12: Kevin Randle Rails Against Stanton Friedman's Rebuttal

MJ-12: Alejandro Rojas Accepts Stanton Friedman's Debate Challenge

MJ-12: Renowned Ufologist, Stanton Friedman Issues Debate Challenge To Naysayers

More False Claims About Majestic 12

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 1

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 2

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 3

"Appendix A: The Myth of MJ-12" An Annotated Commentary By Barry Greenwood

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Trent UFO Photos - the 'Best' of All Time - Finally Busted? | SPECIAL REPORT

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By Robert Sheaffer badufos.blogspot.com 9-25-14

     Once again, farmer Paul Trent's famous UFO photos from McMinnville, Oregon are a hot topic in UFOlogy. Kevin Randle discussed the photos on his Blog A Different Perspective, and a torrent of comments from researchers followed. Not just frothy opinion, but highly detailed, meticulous comments about the camera angle and position, the weight and size of the hypothetical model, the load on the wires and a possible bend in them, etc. Ultimately this is important, but such matters are unlikely to give us a final answer. There is one thing about this case that everyone can probably agree with: as Randle says, "there are only two conclusions to be drawn about the pictures taken in McMinnville, Oregon. They either show a craft from another world, or they are a hoax. I do not see a third possibility."

1950: The Origin of the Photos

On May 11, 1950, farmer Paul Trent of McMinnville, Oregon snapped two photos of an object that he claimed was a flying saucer (the term "UFO" hadn't been invented yet). There are inconsistencies in Mrs. Trent's accounts of where her husband was when the object was first spotted, and who went inside to get the camera. They did not immediately tell anyone about the photos, or rush them off to be developed. Instead, the film containing the invaluable flying saucer photos was left in the camera until Mother's Day, so that a few unexposed frames would not be wasted. More general information on the photos is on my web page, debunker.com.

After the photos had been developed, a reported who came to interview the Trents found the irreplaceable negatives lying "on the floor under the davenport, where the Trent children had been playing with them."

The story first appeared in the local newspaper the Telephone-Register. This led to a sensational national story in the June 26, 1950 issue of Life Magazine, then one the largest-circulation magazines in America. . . .

Continue Reading . . .

See Also:

The McMinnville UFO Photos; A Scientific Analysis By Dr. Bruce Maccabee (Redux)

Fight Over UFO Photos Pits Family Versus Newspaper

UFO Fanatics are Flocking to Oregon: 2014 McMenamins UFO Festival

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