Digging Away

By James Carrion
Follow The Magic Thread
1-10-10

      In response to Rick Nelson’s article “Using Your Own Common Sense in UFO Investigations” posted here:
How timely Mr. Nelson that you took the time to further elaborate on the Stan Romanek case and why we don’t see eye to eye on Stan. Case in point:

Let me quote your article if I may:

“I have found certain actions and conduct by Mr. Carrion in this matter inappropriate, unprofessional and in some instances inexcusable.”

“ There comes a point when every individual has to stand up and call a spade a spade. I’m standing up Mr. Carrion and publically saying, “Develop some healthy ethics and do the right thing or get the heck out of the way of those who are trying to.” There’s far too much at stake for humanity to let a “so-called” watchdog attack victims and contribute to UFO cover-ups. “

Let me respond in kind: I am calling a spade a spade and that same spade is digging their own hole of deception from which there is no way out. Let me quote further from your article:

“In a recent radio broadcast Mr. Carrion stated that Lisa Romanek lied about a detail of a meeting she was at with Mr. Carrion and her husband Stan. Anyone who knows Lisa has absolutely no question about her integrity and complete commitment to speak only the truth even when it is personally embarrassing, difficult or painful. To me this is not acceptable conduct by anyone’s standards and I won’t let this kind of conduct go unchallenged. I know of, and openly defend, Lisa Romanek’s honesty, intelligence, memory and integrity. “

So let’s examine some recent events that demonstrate how off kilter you are about the Romaneks. On December 28, 2009 Stan Romanek called the MUFON office asking for MUFON’s legal department. On the same day a “recorded voice” called the MUFON office asking for MUFON’s legal address so that MUFON could be served papers. On the same day, Leslie Varnicle, MUFON Colorado State Director received a voice mail from Stan Romanek also asking for MUFON’s legal department. After mulling this over, I posted on the next day, December 29, 2009, my article found here:
Now Lisa was gracious enough to DENY that Stan even made these phone calls in her "white flag" article, where she stated:

“Mr. Carrion can tell all of the BS lies he wants, I cannot stop him, but I will state Here and Now that Stan Romanek did not call and threaten a lawsuit against Carrion… I don’t know what Carrions new game is, but I think he has lost his marbles!”

So I challenged her on this by asking:

What are you denying Lisa? That Stan called the MUFON office? That Stan asked for the MUFON legal department? That Stan asked for the legal address MUFON could be served at? That Stan called Leslie Varnicle and left a voice mail with the same demands? Are you saying that someone was impersonating Stan? Are you also denying that Stan has threatened legal action against MUFON in conversations with others? State it plainly and clearly so all can understand.

Lisa’s hole-digging response:

“Stan and Leslie Varnicle are friends and have been for many years. Stan did leave Leslie a message asking her if there was a legal department in MUFON but only after your post was on the Internet! Stan and Leslie had a conversation regarding your article of a threat of a lawsuit. Stan asked her what was going on and if she knew why you would write such an article. Stan already knew that there was no such department after the disaster years ago with our MUFON investigator who kept (stole) important evidence belonging to Stan. MUFON could not take legal steps to recover the evidence for lack of such a department! I don’t see how a phone call or voice message to a friend’s personal phone asking a question can be seen by anyone as a threat to sue MUFON or you for that matter, especially after the article was posted!!”

And now the hole is 20 feet deep. Lisa admits Stan made a call asking for MUFON’s legal department, even though she denied it earlier, except now the story is twisted to make it sound like Stan did this in reaction to my blog article. Bullshit! Lie! Deception! – Is that spade enough for you Mr. Nelson? Unless Stan time travelled to December 29 to read my blog article and then back to leave his original voice mail on December 28, the Romaneks have been caught in a plain and simple bold-faced lie, all documented in writing. Are you still singing the integrity praises of Lisa Romanek?

Here’s my advice Rick – perhaps you should use the “common sense” you profess to and extricate yourself from the hole that you are sliding down into that is the Romanek saga, or perhaps you prefer to pick up the spade yourself and help dig the hole even deeper.

More . . .

See Also:

Stan Romanek Threatens Lawsuit

Lisa Romanek Offers Up 'Bob Bicksler' with Claimed Sworn Testimony in Heated Debate with MUFON Head, James Carrion

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Lisa Romanek Offers Up 'Bob Bicksler' with Claimed Sworn Testimony in Heated Debate with MUFON Head, James Carrion

James Carrion… Will you wave the white flag regarding the Stan Romanek experiences when common sense dictates?

By Lisa Romanek
www.stanromanek.com
12-26-09
[Unedited]

Editor's Note--James Carrion has sent in his rejoinder to Lisa's OP-ED, which appears at the end the piece. Additionally, links to previous pertinent articles are there as well-FW

     Red flags are everywhere for MUFON’s International Director James Carrion, as he investigates the Stan Romanek case via website posts, blogs, online post and response to articles posted about Stan Romanek’s case of UFO sightings, alien abductions and much more. Oh yes and let’s not forget the Schriever AFB document that he obtained mysteriously from an unnamable source. What will be sufficient evidence to allow him to raise a white flag? In many of James Carrions replies he requests that the individuals who wrote the online reports to NUFORC in support of Stan’s sightingsprove that they are “real people.” For some unfathomable reason he is now asking that any anonymous blog posters identify themselves as well? I am at a loss to see the relevance of blog posters to the evidence in this case. Any Tom, Dick or Harry can log onto a site and post a comment, it does not mean that they are not real; it does not show that they are connected to Stan Romanek in any way.

The internet has become a device of disinformation as well as information. Many tactics are used to lend credibility to individuals as well as sneakily discredit with fictitious claims of knowledge that would support, in an effort to discredit. This is not a new strategy, it is just plain stupidity. And for individuals who are not able to discern the difference that make you gullible. No offense, I too wonder at many posts by individuals whom I do not know, who claim to know details that are incorrect. I ignore them as rubbish and move on, I understand some people want (or need) to have a connection to what is the big news for the day. I feel it is nothing more than that!

Mr. Carrion wrote the following in his comment on October 10th, 2009 on the UFOnut.com site. The fact that the word fallow got mispelled in any single document or online posting is not the issue but that the mispelled word shows up in so many third party documents supporting Stan’s claims -third parties that allegedly have no relationship or connection with Stan. What are the odds that all of these third parties mispelled this same word (in documents supportive of Stan), is due to chance? The Romanek’s don’t want you to mull this over using critical thinking but would rather try to refocus your attention on the word fallow being a commonly mispelled word. I don’t buy their argument and I continue to consider it a red flag until one or more of these third parties come forward and prove themselves to be real people. Will the real John Mannon please step up? Not by posting again to the anonymous Internet but showing some ID in person so you can be verified to be a real physicist.

Ok so let’s break down Carrions reply a bit. He stated “The fact that the word fallow got misspelled in any single document or online posting is not the issue but that the misspelled word showed up in so many third party documents supporting Stan’s claims –third partys that allegedly have no relationship or connection with Stan.”

First of all Mr. Carrion the correct spelling for misspelled is that there are two s’s in it. It is my opinion if you are going to be so critical of other people’s spelling errors, you should be damn sure your spelling is correct! You state in the opening sentence that the fact that the word follow (of which you chose to be like the online posters, and spelled it incorrectly as fallow…not so clever) was misspelled in any online or single doc. was not the issue. Sounds like you are making it part of your issue.

Second, please be specific with what third party documents (many?) that you are talking about. Making broad general statements about many third party documents is not helping to rectify this debate. I see you wrote it as plural in that there is more than one document that you are referring to other than the Schriever AFB document. It is hard for people who may have knowledge of such “documents” to claim authorship of them if they do not know what you are referring to.

Third, your comment, “What are the odd that all of these third parties misspelled this same word (in documents supportive to Stan), is due to chance?” Again what documents are you talking about? Without these alleged documents, this argument is moot to say the least.

Fourth, you said, “The Romanek’s don’t want you to mull this over using critical thinking but would rather try to refocus your attention on the word fallow being a commonly mispelled word.” It looks to me like you are the one who is focused on the word follow/fallow . How is this article showing that you (James Carrion) are not using critical thinking to prove anything—one way or another? It was not an attempt to refocus attention from the issue, it was an attempt to help you understand that “fallow” is a commonly misspelled word, and critical thinking WAS used to do so.

Fifth, you state, “I don’t buy their argument and I continue to consider it a red flag until one or more of these third parties come forward and prove themselves to be real people.” As Stan’s wife and using critical thinking I have taken it upon myself to contact the individuals who posted (some with Stan’s assistance) reports on the NUFORC site, as well as Peter Davenport in regards to the September 21st 2001 sighting at Daniels Park near Castle Rock, Colorado. Please have your white flag ready, and let this be the end of this ridiculous argument once and for all. Feel free to contact any and all of the following witnesses for verification! I am glad that the NUFOC reporting site exists since reporting anything to MUFON seems to result in public criticism, attacks not only on the experiencers but also their families. I personally take offense at being attacked and called a liar!!!! When an experiencers credibility is questioned and their integrity is questioned because of a misspelled word, and MUFON is connected to this behavior I am shocked and surprised that an organization of this magnitude would allow such an individual to continue in this very important position after such a blatant act of unprofessional and inappropriate conduct.

Mr. Carrion,
My name is Ann Romanek. I understand that there is confusion about my report in 2001 about a UFO sighting at Daniels Park which was one of the most astonishing and most startling experiences of my life. I requested at that time that my brother Stan Romanek type the report to NUFORC because I detest typing and I was intimidated by computers. I have been a MUFON volunteer for the past 4 to 5 years. I am appalled by your seemingly personal attack on those of us who wrote reports on what we witnessed and on my brother’s credibility. I do understand that a number of MUFON investigators and members do not share your feelings on this matter nor do they share your opinions on the credibility of this case!!!

Stan has recently asked that those who were there and reported anything on this experience that evening come forward and be heard, AGAIN! I and others who have witnessed these amazing UFOs are doing that now.

I hope this isn’t the way MUFON treats witnesses reporting these matters. It’s a heck of a way to have the truth come forward.

Ann Romanek

P.S. Please notice in the NUFORC note at the bottom of my report that Mr. Davenport thanks Stan Romanek for submitting not only this report, but several other reports from other witnesses to this same event. See Here.

- click on image(s) to enlarge -

Mr. James Carrion

My name is Mark Stahl, I have been a volunteer for MICAP, MUFON and several other organizations for nearly 20 years and my contact information can be obtained through MUFON. I would like to address the issue that has recently come to my attention about a report that was submitted to NUFORC on my behalf in September 2001.

I wrote a report of the UFO sighting that was witnessed by me and many other people at a night watch that I hosted in Sept. of 2001 at Daniels Park south of Denver, Colorado. I handwrote the report and asked Stan Romanek to help me post it on the reporting center website since I’m not that computer literate. I would like to state that I WAS at Daniels Park on September 21, 2001 and I DID file the report shortly afterwards. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me.

Mark Stahl

- click on image(s) to enlarge -

I, Bob Bicksler, did submit a report to Peter Davenport at the UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, Washington about an incident that took place on September 21, 2001. It was about a happening at Daniels Park south of Denver and I interviewed two witnesses who were amazed at what they had seen. If you wish to know the details go to the UFO reporting Center September 22, 2001.

That was my sworn testimony and I won't change a word of it.

Signed, Bob Bicksler.

- click on image(s) to enlarge -
Lastly, I would like to address the John Mannon comment you made, “Will the real John Mannon please step up? Not by posting again to the anonymous Internet but showing some ID in person so you can be verified to be a real physicist.” Where in this post does this person claim to be a physicist? If you have another post available with this claim please share that information as well.

Comment
From John Mannon 1-19-4:

Hi Jeff -

I have been enthralled with the Romanek case for some time now it is a great story. As I fallow his adventures on your site, I see something that others have missed. This is in response to Byron Guernsey's comment and star chart. I noticed that Stan Romanek's #6 equation is depicting Orion - but Orion is upside down Please see attached. (copied from www.rense.com See Here).

I would also like to hear from John Mannon, but will not hold out hope for such a meeting. If this post was from 2004, I think it unlikely, but what an awesome challenge to an individual who wanted to make a simple comment. “The Truth Seeker” demands now that you prove that you are real or else… ? I would also like to meet the real “truth seeker” from the site, Follow The Magic Thread. Oh yes that is right James you are “the truth seeker.” Let’s see if you can accept the truth once it is presented to you or if you will continue to pursue this ridiculous issue instead of focusing on the real evidence in this case. You have a copy of the document from Schriever AFB, what have you learned of the authenticity of it? Tell us the “truth” of what your critical thinking had revealed! I would think that as MUFON’s International Director you would have friends in high places that would pay to have it analyzed, again. Focus on the big picture, and stop making MUFON look bad by your actions.

In conclusion I would like to share an email message from Peter Davenport, the Director of the NUFORC site. (National UFO Reporting Center www.UFOCenter.com or www.nuforc.org also, Hotline: 206-722-3000 (use only if the sighting has occurred within the last week)

(An email communication between me and Peter Davenport)

Hello Mr. Davenport,

I know you are very busy and have a lot of messages to get through so I will keep this as short as possible. My name is Lisa Romanek, Stan's wife. I am writing to get your permission to post the full reports that Stan and other witnesses sent to you regarding the 9/21/2001 sighting at Daniels Park, and also if needed the 9/30/2001 reports as well. I am not sure if that is allowed or against your policy or not so I figured permission prior was easier than apologizing later.

James Carrion MUFON International Director has taken issue with the fact that Stan posted reports for his sister and friend Mark on your site. He is very focused on the word follow misspelled fallow in some of the reports. We have asked that each person, who reported on your site for these sightings claim ownership of them (which they have) to prove to James Carrion that they are real people...he does not think they are regardless of our explaining that Stan did indeed file the reports for two of these witnesses — Ann Romanek and Mark Stahl on your site with them sitting next to him. (You even posted a note at the bottom that states that Stan helped them) Any further info you can recover for my quest would be greatly appreciated.

Many Blessing for all your great work!
Lisa Romanek

Hi, Lisa!!

“Thank you very much for your note,…and please convey my regards to Stan, if you would. Please feel free to use the reports, as you see fit. I would offer to return the original mailed copy of Stan’s reports, but because of several computer failures, I suspect that they either are gone for good, or it would take a lot of time for me to find them. Hence, please feel free to copy them from the website.”

“I am very interested in having reports of all sightings, no matter when they occurred. My position is that if a serious-minded person sincerely believes that he/she has sighted a genuine UFO, that is information that should be 1) recorded, and 2) made available publicly. If you ever run into other folks, who have serious stories to tell, I would be most grateful if you would please direct them to our website, with encouragement to write down the details of the event. For your interest, Lisa, I estimate that out of 10,000 Americans who have been witness to a genuine UFO sighting, only perhaps one of those people has ever written it down!! What’s going on here??!!

Peter asks that if you have memory of, or if you have written down any sightings recent or not, please submit them to NUFORC National UFO Reporting Center’s website, www.UFOCenter.com.

More . . .

Carrion's Rejoinder
I am getting wary of posting any more responses about the sinking ship that is the Stan Romanek saga. The Romanek marketing machine counter-attacks just highlight that they are in a serious credibility quandary from which they obviously have no intention of extracting themselves from, nor do they intend to release publicly their photo/video evidence for analysis. Their petty personal attacks and rallying of their faithful does not prove Stan’s case and only reveals their very worn strategy of “thou does protest too much”. Critical thinkers can see through Lisa and Stan’s bolstering of their defenses as eluding the truth and my blog has already done enough damage to their credibility to sink a battleship. Unfortunately, they feel obliged to go down with the ship. Bon voyage.

Thanks

James

See Also:

Lost in Space

Stan Romanek:
Point - Counterpoint With James Carrion Vs Rick Nelson

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The Alien and The Abductee AKA: Prime Minister Elect & The First Lady of Japan

By Frank Warren
The UFO Chronicles
© 8-3-09

     The current attention being given to the Prime Minister-Elect, AKA “The Alien,” and his wife, the soon to be first lady, “Miyuki Hatoyama” a self-proclaimed “experiencer,” if nothing else—is a breath of fresh air in contrast to the news cycles of late with all the flapdoodle being shoveled out about health-care.

Perhaps this comic relief can be continued with the news that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is from Zeta Reticuli and an error in human/alien DNA experimentation explains the behavior of the previous administration in this country.

It would seem that “tabloid news” is not just confined to the good ole USA and Great Britain; rather then the focus of the news being a historic win by Yukio Hatoyama, breaking the status quo of power since 1955, the attention is given to the eccentricities of his wife Miyuki who wrote in her book Very Strange Things I've Encountered, (penned last year):

"While my body was asleep, I think my soul rode on a triangular-shaped UFO and went to Venus, . . .. It was a very beautiful place and it was really green."

The a fore mentioned event happened about 20 years ago according to the future first lady.

Not to neglect the Prime Minister Elect, as he does retain the moniker of “The Alien”; apparently, for having “bulging” or “bug eyes”; it seems that his affliction is obvious to his Japanese brethren; personally, I’m not seeing it!

As one might expect, these follies have gone around the world, and news anchors here and far have been rib poking, and slinging one-liners for the last couple of days. Moreover, undoubtedly, her narration will be lumped into Ufology in general and evoke the “I told you so’s” from the debunkers and naysayers. On the other side, the fringe elements of Ufology will most likely embrace the event, pronouncing proof of our alien brothers living among us.

In any event the tenure of the future Prime Minister of Japan, and his wife will not lackluster. I suppose in a positive light, it’s refreshing to see these two people rise to power, as any American politician with what would be deemed as “ET baggage,” by default would have assured their political demise, and would have been crucified by the media!

See Also:

UFOs Exist, Says Japan Official

FUGO Balloon Shot Down Over Alturas

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James Carrion Ain’t No Sissy!

By Frank Warren
The UFO Chronicles
© 9-1-09

     Whatever one might think about James Carrion, there are a few things that have become abundantly clear: he has a strong opinion, he can give as good as he gets, and he stands his ground!

August 17th (last month) saw the birth of Follow The Magic Thread, Carrion’s personal blog, where he makes clear that in that realm, “he isn’t speaking in an official capacity for MUFON.”

For those not familiar with the man, he is the International Director of the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON—as James states is a scientific research nonprofit organization that studies UFOs for the benefit of humanity through investigation, research and public education.), having taken the reins from former director, John Schuessler in 2006.

In James’ introduction to his blog, he correctly acknowledges the distortions and misinformation etc., re Ufology, which exist on the Internet, and proclaims his desire that his blog might be a beacon for critical thought and perhaps a protocol for wading through this thing we call Ufology.

Once the reader takes in the introductory commentary, it’s time to hold on, as James jumps right into “the thick of things!” In his piece entitled, The Mysterious Men in Black, he not only fires back at those who would (foolishly) suggest that he perhaps is a notorious Man in Black (MIB), some nefarious undercover agent who has infiltrated MUFON, but also puts his entire background on the table for all to see; accordingly, he then illuminates the verity that his accusers make their proclamations anonymously, and hide behind creative avatars . . . I find the irony amusing.

We get to delve further into what makes Carrion tick, as he published an earlier interview of him conducted by Brazilian researcher, Milton Frank. The Q&A session pretty much sums up Carrion’s views on Ufology; however, in a prelude to the interview Carrion states, “Although my basic opinions have not changed, the last three years have opened my eyes about UFOs in a way that I would have never been able to experience otherwise.”

From this point on Carrion posts articles in rapid-fire succession that are often sharp, critical and to the point! He makes no bones about his position on a myriad of sub-topics to Ufology.

He talks of deceptions, government conspiracies and intelligence agencies pertaining to Ufology in his piece entitled, The Collision Course of Intelligence Agencies and Ufology. In it, he correctly recognizes the national security concerns that UFOs present and lays down the foundation of his dogma and how he arrived at it.

In a few of his articles he mentions his investigative work concerning the Great Lakes Dive Company Hoax of 2006; I took special interest in these declarations, as I began my own investigation into the matter the minute the story broke. Moreover, I thought the acts of this man that perpetrated the hoax were despicable, as they were done at the expense of the missing servicemen’s families, who for a brief moment undoubtedly thought may finally get closure to the mystery of their missing loved ones.

In The Internet Matrix, James “incorrectly” suggests that the GLDC hoax may have been performed by an intelligence agency; admittedly, this concept isn’t too far-fetched; however, my investigation came to fruition and the “crime” was perpetrated by one individual, with perhaps occasional help from friends—the motive is still unclear!

In the very same article James elucidates the idea of how easy it would be for intelligence agencies to inject misinformation or propaganda onto the Internet via forums, blogs etc. He makes the valid point that members are not vetted and most often times use an alias and are essentially anonymous; this thesis is carried on through a number of his articles, where he cites particular forums and arguments.

One of the more controversially pieces he wrote, was entitled Lost in Space, where he takes issue with the veracity of the statements of self-professed experiencer, “Stan Romanek.” As the editor of The UFO Chronicles, I was intrigued by the arguments; I requested and was given permission to publish the article; upon publication, I received an e-mail from the Romanek camp, expressing their displeasure re Carrion’s opinions etc.; in the spirit of fairness, I offered to publish any rebuttal they’d like to present (the offer still stands); during the interim, researcher and fellow MUFON investigator, Chuck Zukowski offered refutation to Carrion’s penscript. Given the significance of Romanek’s declarations, and the evaluation of them by no other then the director of MUFON, it’s no surprise that this has become a hotbed of controversy.

At the end of the day, for those of you that stop by and peruse Carrion’s Follow The Magic Thread blog, you might find yourself disagreeing with the author; his ruminations may evoke your ire; you may learn something; you may applaud his efforts enthusiastically; however, one thing is for certain—you will not be bored; you will be forced to cogitate, and you will be compelled to continue reading!

More . . .

See Also:

A Rebuttal To James Carrion's Article On Stan Romanek

Lost in Space

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