Friday, March 19, 2010

The Phoenix Lights:
Flares or Huge Craft? Mike Fortson, Frances Emma Barwood & Dr Bruce Maccabee Set The Record Straight on The Joiner Report

Bruce Maccabee, Frances Barwood & Mike Fortson On The Joiner Report
By Frank Warren
The UFO Chronicles
© 3-15-10

     This month marks the 13th anniversary of what has erroneously been labeled The Phoenix Lights. The name in part stuck because the media feels the need to use “visual aids” at any opportunity; henceforth the lights that were captured on video at around 10:00 pm were melded together with eyewitness accounts of a large craft(s) seen in the eight o’clock hour.

Unfortunately, while the video images were gaining traction, and became a media frenzy, the official reports (MUFON), which determined that the 10:00 pm videos were in fact flares—got thrown by the way-side.

It was MUFON investigator, Richard Motzer who not only was the recipient of the flare videos early on, it was he that initially discovered the discrepancy between the witnesses to the 10:00 pm flare shots and the accounts in the eight o’clock hour. Point of fact is there were thousands of witnesses to the huge craft in the eight o’clock hour and only a handful at 10:00 pm (who happened to capture the lights [flares] on video).

This precipitated an investigation by Motzer, which would entail going to the locations of the videographers and triangulating all the pertinent videos. Stills were shot during the day at each relevant location and he determined that the lights were above and beyond the “Estrellas,” in the airspace of the Barry M. Goldwater Air Force Range—not over South Mountain as initially thought. He then ascertained the time and days of military exercises, which included flare drops and discovered that the days and times corresponded to previous video and or witness accounts of “orange lights” in that vicinity. His report was completed by mid May of ’97, just two months after the events of March 13th. This clearly explained why people on the valley floor didn’t see the flares, as it was impossible, unless you were at a higher elevation, like the videographers.

Not long after that report was made, the Air Force came clean and made an official statement admitting that the visiting Maryland Air National Guard (MANG) did eject their remaining flares before returning to Davis-Monthan Air Force Base. Regrettably, this has been a bone of contention and source of confusion ever since!

In part, because the media often interviewed eight o’clock witnesses, while showing the 10:00 pm flare videos the former was adamant that “flares” is not what they witnessed—and this of course is correct. Separating, and being cognizant of the two (and other) events is in fact the actual problem.

As time went by there would be other investigations and scientific analyses confirming Motzer’s conclusions. One of the most in-depth analyses done, was performed by Dr. Bruce Maccabee; recently retired as an optical physicist from the Naval Surface Warfare Center and long time respected Ufologist.

Dr. Maccabee, along with direct eyewitness Mike Fortson and former Phoenix city council member, Frances Emma Barwood will join me, Frank Warren when I guest host for this Friday’s Joiner Report.

Together, we will sort out the events of March 13th 1997, which includes one of the most significant events in UFO history as well as the distraction caused by the flare footage.

Show time: Friday, March 19, 9-11 p.m. CST
Paranormal Radio Network

18 comments :

  1. One widely overlooked aspect of the "flares" explanation is the lights were visible for over half an hour (please correct me if my sources are wrong) -

    ...it's very simple really. If my logic is flawed, please tell me, but...

    ...Don't flares FALL?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I watched these round spheres of orange light float in formation as they made turns and floated along the length of the south mountain range while maintaining a constant altitude of about 200 foot. The time was 8:35 when i first saw it over sky harbor int airport and went out of my view when it turned south and went behind the mountain range and into rainbow valley. At that time it was almost 9 pm... i never took my eyes off of it and had an unobstructed view on this clear night. My entire story is in the archives of Frank Warren's ufo chronicals that i wrote many years ago. Scott Petrie. (Cheers Frank)

      Delete
  2. Good Evening jbc242,

    You wrote:

    One widely overlooked aspect of the "flares" explanation is the lights were visible for over half an hour (please correct me if my sources are wrong)

    Correction: This was not overlooked at all; in fact it was deduced early on by MUFON investigator Richard Motzer, who was the recipient of all the 10:00 pm flare videos, and they were recorded within minutes of each other.

    You wrote:

    Don't flares FALL?

    Yes, and they did as photographic analyses has revealed time and time again.

    Cheers,
    Frank

    ReplyDelete
  3. Dr. Maccabee has updated his findings that takes the Mike Krzston/chuck Rairdon intersection 30 or so miles south of where he had them in 1998. He takes Dr. Lynne Kitei's lights out of the equation and has recommended that Marc D/'Antonio review the data from my sighting to complete the analysis of all 4 video positions. See http://www.oracleofthephoenix.com/triangulation.html

    ReplyDelete
  4. Hi Steve,

    Thank you for taking the time to make comment.

    To be clear, none of Bruce's findings have changed concerning the "flare videos." The only thing different on his latest paper is the "date and title"–his thesis remains the same.

    I have spoken to him, as well as corresponded with him as early as last week; he sent me a copy of "REANALYSIS OF THE MARCH 13, 1997 VIDEO BY DR. LYNNE KITEI" (Jan 12), in it he writes (as he did originally):

    First paragraph–"In either case, above or below the ridgeline, it is not possible from 'her video alone' [my emphasis] to determine the actual distance."

    Final paragraph–"As pointed out in the first paragraph of this article, it was hoped that this analysis would provide a definitive answer to the question of whether or not the lights videotaped by Dr. Lynne Kitei could have been beyond the mountain ridgeline. Instead, the analysis has provided results that are ambiguous.. "

    Additionally, Bruce wrote (to me): "I haven't reviewed her tape in years(!)" [2-4-12]

    In my response to Doc Lynne's e-mail (to me), sharing these false allegations I replied:

    In conclusion, Bruce hasn't wavered from his previous reports at all, as he reiterates the same thesis. Fortunately, we don't have to rely on any one video; we have a preponderance of evidence that confirmed what the flares were.

    The flare videos in my view have been a distraction since day one; some believe it was an "intentional diversion." If that in fact was/is the case–then it has been successful beyond anyone's dreams I would imagine.

    As I once told you: you and I agree on more important things then not; given your public profile with this case, I can only hope that eventually you’ll move on from the “flare videos” and focus on the “true unknowns” of March 13, 1997.

    Warmest regards,
    Frank

    ReplyDelete
  5. Hi Frank, thanks for your response. First, I don't recall a conversation with you regarding this topic but maybe I responded to a post at one time. Second, I hope I have not inferred that Bruce has changed his conclusions concerning the MK/CR sighting as being flares. What I've said and he's said is that he's changed his positioning of their intersection some 30 miles south of where he had them. Where he had them is close to where mine would have intersected had they been the same objects in play. I'm saying that they were not the same objects we video taped for the following reasons:

    1. Why do we see only a portion of the 9 lights if they were the same lights? If the answer is they were obstructed behind the ridgeline, how do you account for that when our ridgeline is more than 1,000 below MK's ridgeline?

    2. There is a lower orb in front of a house across the street (see the photo/composites in the pdf file I attached to the page I linked to). Why does MK not see a lower orb (don't confuse with the left orb known as Light 1)? If you say I've placed the orbs too low then it brings up the question as to why I don't see the other orbs MK see's since according to the times, MK has his Light 6 pop on (our second light) 7 seconds after ours. Both MK and our group saw an initial Light 0 which prompted us to get cameras). Everyone of us saw the lights over different points of the mountain range which if they were in one place could be explained however there can be no argument that my lights are 30 miles north of where Dr. Maccabee now places MK/CR. If anything I've erred on the side of a conservative placement. My right orb should be place even more north than where it is which puts it north of Interstate 8 and north of an Military Airspace. Actually Dr. Maccabee's placement further south could account for why I don't see the full array.

    3. See the comparison's of all 4 video perspectives in the PDF. You'll see the left orb at all kinds of variances. My home was in CR's path. While he seems to have begun shooting his video 3 minutes after ours began, there is no way to account for the small distance between the left orb and right side of the array since there was supposed drift to the left. Our orbs showed a slight drift to the right.

    4. The orbs remain stationary for at least 1:45 based on matching their positions to ground lights and an entry light across the street. These show up in full frames of video that can be analyzed by anyone who wants to take the time to actually review the film, the photoshop file, etc.

    I am clearly stumped by your question concerning moving on from the "flare" video to the true unknowns. Why have you framed this as an either or conclusion? My goal has been to include the abundance of evidence I and others have accumulated to let the evidence speak for itself. If you look at the photoshop file you'll see that I actually captured a three orb Vee around 8:30 that evening in the same location with a helicopter hovering over it. It's at 9:50 in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-xV9p1ri0o

    While my meticulous focus on the data may seem like an obsession to others, it is purely so I can feel closure and a satisfaction that the evidence we've collected has been given a proper review. From Richard Motzer's original drawing on a napkin which put CR's position totally out of whack with mine, to Dr. Maccabee's analysis showing only the other 3 positions, I've been left to reconstruct the case (with Larry Lowe's assistance) to assure that ALL evidence has been considered before reaching any conclusions that would dismiss what in my case was 4 nights of consecutive sightings of the same amber orbs.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Hi Steve,

    Again,thanks for your commentary.

    You wrote:

    First, I don't recall a conversation with you regarding this topic but maybe I responded to a post at one time.

    If you're referring to my reply to you (above), I included "my rejoinder to the e-mail from Doc Lynne."

    I'm in the middle of several tasks (as usual) at the moment, and will respond in toto ASAP.

    Cheers,
    Frank

    ReplyDelete
  7. Steve,

    Are you saying that you shot 8:30 pm video of three orbs on March 13, 1997?

    As to shooting 10 pm video where Bill Hamilton and Tom King were present, you told me you failed to hit the record button.

    Please help me here.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Steve,

    I look forward to finally meeting at the Harkins Theater March 11. 2012. I will be there with Frances Emma Barwood.

    Mike

    ReplyDelete
  9. Hi Mike - I won't be able to make it to Phoenix this year but look forward to next year hopefully.

    Frank, in answer to your questions.

    1. The only video I did not shoot is what Tom King captured around 10:00 pm. I personally shot video on March 10, 11, 12 and on the 13th BEFORE Tom King and Bill Hamilton showed up to my home to review the previous nights' recordings which brought them there in the first place. The Vee I recorded was between 7:00pm and 9:00pm. They showed up after I filmed it. Any videos you see on YouTube under the name sbjazzman with a date stamp on the frames is video I shot. Anything I posted without a date stamp is what Tom shot.

    For the chronology and background see http://www.oracleofthephoenix.com/sighting.html and http://www.oracleofthephoenix.com/oracleof.html

    ReplyDelete
  10. Hi Steve,


    That was Mike that asked the questions actually; however, on Mike's behalf, thank you for the answers.

    Of course the video in question is the one "you didn't shoot yourself," (I realize you were there), and Tom King who did shoot it, after his own in-depth analysis–has reversed his initial position, and concluded that he indeed filmed flares.

    For that matter, another stalwart proponent of the flares being something else who has "reversed his position" was/is Jim Dilettoso; using new tech (along with Larry Lowe, Scott Davis (Channel 3) and Antonio Chang) concluded that the flares went out of site has they dropped behind the mountain, thus giving the appearance of "blinking out." http://tinyurl.com/yg5pfuf

    More Later,
    Frank

    ReplyDelete
  11. Frank, I'm quite aware of Tom's reversed position, am unclear on Jim's but given the highly politicized nature of the this sighting, nothing surprises me. I'm not sure why you think anyone's opinion is important when the data/evidence speaks for itself. All coordinates I published are Dr. Bruce Maccabee's sans the line of sight from my house. A simple comparison of the ground lights with day shot's will provide that and support my conclusion that it was impossible that I was seeing the same lights that MK and CR were based on Dr. M's most recent reanalysis (assuming his analysis is sound).

    I got a dub of King's video immediately (in exchange for my videos). Are you suggesting he tampered with his video and transferred it back to VHS within a day - and then declared flares? It contains reference lights and shots of the dormer window across the street.

    I'm pretty puzzled by your lack of logic and unwillingness to look at the data and come up with your own hypothesis that might be stronger than mine. Saying it's flares doesn't make it so.

    Just look at Motzer's triangulation diagram he published after Bill Hamliton's article appeared in the MUFON newsletter and compare that with the actual witness coordinates and tell me with a straight face that his findings were conclusive. See page 4 http://www.theblackvault.com/encyclopedia/documents/MUFON/Journals/1997/July_1997.pdf

    ReplyDelete
  12. Mornin' Steve,

    You can hear Jim (as stated “on the air” via The Paracast in 2010) by following the link at the end of my last comment.

    You wrote:

    I'm not sure why you think anyone's opinion is important when the data/evidence speaks for itself.

    First Tom King and Jim Dilettoso aren’t just anyone; the former is the actual person who shot the video in question and showed up at your house with (then) MUFON investigator Bill Hamilton, to investigate what you were seeing in the days before, which, by your own admission was precipitated by your query to Joe Trainor (of UFO Round-Up). Moreover, you’ve listed Tom King as a photographer. To his credit, (IMHO) he has done a tremendous amount of research on the videos, including co-authoring a paper on the matter. Dilettoso has been labeled a computer image expert in reference to the case since day one, and his work has been cited time and time again as you know.

    Their respective opinions are important because (since day one) they have been key players in the so-called Phoenix Lights in general, and the flare drop videos specifically; they have spent a great deal of time in analyzing the videos, and early on, “like most” in the beginning, King and Dilettoso were adamant that the videos were of something other then flares; however, in the end after absorbing the “preponderance” of evidence/data they (respectively) concluded that the videos were indeed flares. At the end of the day, the value in their opinions comes from “how” they developed them, which was reviewing the totality of evidence/data.

    You wrote:

    All coordinates I published are Dr. Bruce Maccabee's sans the line of sight from my house. A simple comparison of the ground lights with day shot's will provide that and support my conclusion that it was impossible that I was seeing the same lights that MK and CR were based on Dr. M's most recent reanalysis (assuming his analysis is sound).

    From scientific perspective, for example in reviewing Bruce's analysis there was nothing "simple" in how he determined the "coordinates." That said, if one does take a more 'simple" approach to the matter, and apply good ole "horse sense": we have an admission from the Maryland Air National Guard, in particular by Capt. Drew Sullins, Lt. Col. Ed Jones and Lt. Col. David Tanaka (to name 3) that they did in fact drop flares at high altitude before going back to base, and these would have been (and were) in your field of view, as recorded by Tom King et al( and he [Tom] as affirmed that).

    You wrote:

    I got a dub of King's video immediately (in exchange for my videos). Are you suggesting he tampered with his video and transferred it back to VHS within a day - and then declared flares?

    I'm not quite sure how you could interpret what I wrote above as any suggestion of Tom King tampering with anything; the fact of the matter is (as I touched on above) Tom King after the "sizzle" of seeing something that "seemed" extraordinary wore off, and he absorbed the preponderance of evidence–he determined that what "he filmed" was the flare drop performed by the Maryland Air National Guard. [For an in-depth interview with Capt. Drew Sullins of Maryland Air National Guard go here:http://tinyurl.com/4z9qaoh]

    You wrote:

    I'm pretty puzzled by your lack of logic and unwillingness to look at the data and come up with your own hypothesis that might be stronger than mine. Saying it's flares doesn't make it so.

    Steve, to the best of my knowledge, you and I have never spoken to each other and or corresponded before, I don't mean to be rude; however, in the space of a couple of paragraphs you have put words in my mouth (when "exactly," what I wrote is posted just above on this page) and now criticize my reasoning and or what I'm willing to do or not do, which clearly you know nothing about. These examples don't bode well for your objectivity. –continued

    ReplyDelete
  13. —continued from above

    You wrote:

    Just look at Motzer's triangulation diagram he published after Bill Hamliton's article appeared in the MUFON newsletter and compare that with the actual witness coordinates and tell me with a straight face that his findings were conclusive.

    By permission of MUFON we published Motzter's report as seen in the MUFON Journal of July 1997. Moreover I also have copies of the original report he based the article on.

    Motzer's triangulation was instigated by an eyewitness who was "flying at the time of the flare drop"; he witnessed the lights (as you did) on the other side of the Estrella's. I might add, that he didn't see any other lights (orb's flares etc) over the valley. Using those initial coordinates he (Motzer) then confirmed the individual locations of the other videographers in respect to the flares—they all lined up.

    Motzer wrote:

    "This determination was made after viewing all the video tapes and going to all but one of the sites and shooting 35mm film in daylight. Using the point marked by the pilot, I drew a line from each of the sites where the Estrella lights were taped. . . . As the lights drifted downward, some lights were blocked out by the many small peaks making up the Estrella range.”

    Although Motzer was the first MUFON investigator to call a spade a spade (May 1997) after a thorough investigation, it is often overlooked that at least one news station correctly reported that it was flares the very next day (AZ News 3).

    Additionally, the coordinates is just the tip of the ice-berg in regards to the preponderance of evidence cited in Motzer’s report—he nailed it from the get-go.


    Cheers,
    Frank

    ReplyDelete
  14. Mornin' Steve,

    It would appear our posts are out of sync. In any event, just a quick note to let you know that I will respond in toto ASAP.

    Cheers,
    Frank

    ReplyDelete
  15. Good Day Steve,

    My apologies for the sluggish response on this end, have been swamped (as usual).

    I see your (unpublished) request re Larry, and will of course remove your previous comment(s). Additionally, you have "4" comments pending publication which also "mention Larry," do you "not" want those published?

    [I cannot "partially" edit comments–it's all or nothing]

    Please advise.

    Cheers,
    Frank

    ReplyDelete
  16. Steve,

    OK, per your request the comment in question has been removed, and (if I understood you correctly) the others won't be posted.

    Please double-check . . ..

    Thanks,
    Frank

    ReplyDelete
  17. I would not have seen the flare drop from my vantage point in south tempe anyway... but i surely witnessed the 8:30 lifechanging event. I was able to see great detail of these orbs. The bright orange spheres against the night sky was like watching a cartoon. I have lived here in the valley all my life and this all happened within the phx city limits... NOT out at the goldwater training area. Scott

    .

    ReplyDelete

Dear Contributor,

Your comments are greatly appreciated, and coveted; however, blatant mis-use of this site's bandwidth will not be tolerated (e.g., SPAM etc).

Additionally, healthy debate is invited; however, ad hominem and or vitriolic attacks will not be published. Please keep your arguments "to the issues" and present them with civility and proper decorum-FW


LIVE SIGHTING REPORTS BY MUFON