UFOs, Nuclear Weapons and Alien Abductions

On dropping the bomb(s)

For more than 30 years, Robert Hastings knew he had another story to tell, one that risked dragging him back to the fringe. He’d worked tirelessly to position his research in the elusive center, and in 2010, it looked like he might’ve gotten a toehold. Ten years ago in September, CNN live-streamed Hastings’ press conference at the National Press Club in Washington. That’s where most Americans — or at least, those who tuned in,

By Billy Cox De Void 2-13-20

anyway — first learned from seven intrepid military veterans that UFOs were punching holes in the most sensitive airspace in the nation, above Strategic Air Command facilities, where America’s weapons of mass destruction are locked and loaded.

The speakers’ service records were above reproach, and their stories represented a fraction of what Hastings had chronicled in his 2008 book UFOs and Nukes: Extraordinary Encounters at Nuclear Weapons Sites. At that time, more than a hundred veterans had gone on record for Hastings’ expose, which was the most in-depth look at this strange dance since word of compromised security first leaked out in 1973. The Christian Science Monitor broke that story when Sylvania Electric Systems manager Ray Fowler spoke out about how a flight of Minuteman ICBMs at Malmstrom AFB got shut down by bogeys back when LBJ was president. Eyewitness reports of similar intrusions have been dribbling out piecemeal ever since.

Hastings has interviewed more looped-in veterans since then, and in 2016 he produced a sobering followup documentary, “UFOs and Nukes: The Secret Link Revealed.” But the media never capitalized on the national-security angle, at least not until news of the Pentagon’s Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program got out in 2017. Between that and the release of eyewitness-supported F-18 videos, the lid began to crack in a big way. And once congressional inquiries into The Great Taboo gain momentum, you can bet your ass the security of our nuclear arsenal will be a major part of that review. (But good luck getting anyone to acknowledge it.)

But the man who got the ball rolling was also holding back a secret he’d muzzled since 1988, something so underground it would’ve been as reputation-shattering as admitting to being gay in 1952. However, after being diagnosed with congestive heart failure two years ago, now closing in on 70, Hastings decided to drop the bomb late last year with a memoir, Confession: Our Hidden Alien Encounters Revealed.

Actually, it was two bombs. Not only did the newly unmasked UFO abductee disclose details of what may have been tracking him as early as age 2, Hastings invited Bob Jacobs to contribute to Confession as well. Jacobs, ex-Air Force, has never been shy about talking up what he claims was the filmed shootdown of an unarmed Atlas missile by a UFO over Big Sur when he was stationed at Vandenberg AFB in 1964. But he hadn’t told everything.

While comparing notes years ago, Hastings and Jacobs discovered they shared a bizarre mutual quirk – waking up with a start in the middle of the night, their digital nightstand clocks reading (mostly) 4:44 or 3:33. Those jarring episodes were often accompanied by the sort of “nightmares” long familiar to researchers who study abduction cases, with overlapping details that included (occasional) bloodstains on the pillows or sheets.

Without tipping his hand, Hastings would query strangers with similar interests about any experiences they may have had with the triplicate repetition of numbers, 1:11, 2:22, etc. So many puzzled souls reported being jolted from slumber at those times, he began calling it the “Triple Digit Thingy.” Hastings interpreted the phenomenon to be a signature, or a calling card, intended to inform the experiencer of the non-random nature of the event.

Long before the bad-health news, Hastings says he knew, someday, he’d have to get this stuff off his chest. In recent years, he began letting it out incrementally, in off-the-record asides to those he trusted. In some cases, he got the reaction he’d steeled himself for, often from the veterans he had quoted in UFOs and Nukes, who feared his revelations could mark them for ridicule by association. After all, abductees have been the butt of cultural jokes since Martin Mull’s “Fernwood 2 Night” first put the alien-hijacked country-rubes cliché out there in the 1970s.

“A few were visibly upset and almost angry that not only me, but that (retired USAF captain/missile launch officer) Bob Salas had come out of the closet, and felt there was no credibility to the abduction stories and that they undercut their credibility,” Hastings recalls from his home in Colorado. “I said look, you know my body of work, and I’m applying the same methodology in my analysis of my own experience, trying to accurately report what I remember and trying to keep speculation to a minimum. And when I do speculate, I overtly identify my comments as speculative.”

But Hastings also met military veterans who weren’t only unafraid of the issue, they agreed to go on record with their own abduction stories. Most notably there was Terry Lovelace, a USAF veteran who finished his long legal career with the Attorney General’s office in Vermont. Lovelace wrote his own first-person abduction account, Incident at Devil’s Den, in 2018. The other day, he told a told a podcast host how, upon waking up at 5:55 a.m., his cellphone workout app indicated he had ascended 60 feet above his one-story house in less than a minute.

A decade ago, Hastings would’ve gone on a book tour in hopes of encouraging others to step out of the shadows. He no longer feels encumbered by what his critics or anyone else thinks anymore. Given the “precarious” state of his health, however, the lecture circuit is a no-go.

Today, Robert Hastings sounds reconciled to the idea that the mystery at the core of his being is destined to remain just that. And if what appears to have been a lifelong ordeal is real, he has tried to accept, with as much grace as is possible under these circumstances, what humanitarian scrutiny would regard as a gratuitous imposition of powerlessness, confusion and cruelty.

“I think these beings themselves don’t really care about the emotional impact they’re having on the abductees,” he says. “They have a job to do when the person is being taken for a particular reason. And whatever they need to do in that interaction, they’re going to do. Whether you’re screaming or terrified or not, they’re just gonna ignore all of that and get on with it.

“An analogy might be, we use lab animals day in and day out for reasons that we judge valid. And when we’re interacting with mice or rats or chimpanzees in the lab, I’m sure they’re alarmed or terrified by the things we’re doing to them. And yet, we’re not intentionally trying to be cruel to them. But we nevertheless do have a job to do, or a function to perform, and we’re going to do it regardless of what distress we might cause them.

“So I don’t think these entities are going out of their way to be cruel or evil, they’re just engaging in something that we find frightening.”

Like getting a taste of our own medicine, maybe?

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Alien Abduction Research Expands

REPORT YOUR UFO EXPERIENCE

Self-Confessed UFO Abductees Robert Hastings and Dr. Bob Jacobs to Appear on Coast to Coast AM

UFOs and Nukes researcher Robert Hastings and military whistleblower Dr. Bob Jacobs have recently acknowledged their previously concealed status as ‘experiencers’ in their newly-released, co-authored book, CONFESSION: Our Hidden Alien Encounters Revealed. (#ad) The pair will be interviewed by investigative reporter George Knapp on his Coast to Coast AM radio show this Sunday, November 17th, at 10 p.m. Pacific Time (1 a.m. Eastern Time, Monday, November 18th). Since 1973, Hastings’ investigations have focused on UFO incursions at nuclear weapons sites, as revealed in declassified

By Robert Hastings The UFO Chronicles 11-16-19

government documents and the testimony of scores of former or retired military personnel whom he has interviewed. His September 27, 2010 press conference in Washington D.C., during which seven U.S. Air Force veterans discussed their involvement in such incidents, was live-streamed by CNN and favorably covered by other major media organizations worldwide.

Although not a participant in that press event, Dr. Jacobs has become well-known after revealing his knowledge of perhaps the most dramatic nukes-related case on record. Dubbed the Big Sur UFO Incident, it involved a domed, disc-shaped craft being inadvertently filmed during an ICBM test launch at Vandenberg AFB, California, in September 1964. Amazingly, the UFO was seen to chase and then circle the separated dummy nuclear warhead in flight over the Pacific Ocean—before shooting it down with weaponized beams of light! Although debunkers have unsuccessfully attempted to discredit the case by misstating or ignoring the evidence, another former U.S. Air Force officer, Dr. Florenz Mansmann, has confirmed Dr. Jacobs’ revelations and states that the CIA confiscated the film of the nearly unbelievable event.

Despite Hastings’ and Jacobs’ nuts-and-bolts approach to the UFO phenomenon—exclusively investigating and reporting military-related cases—over time each has independently experienced bizarre and frightening encounters with what they have concluded are non-human entities. Understanding that publicly confessing these experiences would negatively impact their credibility—among UFO skeptics and proponents alike—they’ve remained silent for decades. Until now.

While the authors readily admit that they cannot provide irrefutable proof for their claims, they nevertheless assert that their ongoing encounters are physically real and not explainable by prosaic scenarios such as sleep paralysis, vivid dreaming, or an overactive imagination. Consequently, they are among the steadily growing number of humans worldwide who have reported experiencing what appear to be face-to-face interactions with alien beings.

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UFOs and Nukes Researcher Reveals His Alien Abduction Encounters

UFOs are Stalking and Intercepting Dummy Nuclear Warheads During Test Flights

Seeking USAF Veterans Who Had Abduction-Like Experiences at Nuclear Missile Sites

Alien Abduction Research Expands

REPORT YOUR UFO EXPERIENCE

UFOs and Nukes Researcher Reveals His Alien Abduction Encounters

My public face is that of the leading researcher of UFO activity at nuclear weapons sites, as revealed in hundreds of declassified U.S. government documents and the testimony of more than 160 U.S. military veterans whom I’ve interviewed over the past 46 years. Some of those individuals, including a few retired colonels, say that UFOs have actually tampered with American Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles (ICBMs), rendering them temporarily inoperable. On September 27, 2010, CNN live-streamed my press conference in Washington D.C., during which seven of those

By Robert Hastings The UFO Chronicles 10-31-19

veterans discussed their personal UFO encounters at ICBM sites and nukes storage facilities. The press release announcing the event went viral on the Internet, suggesting extensive, worldwide interest in the topic.

Significantly, in the months following the groundbreaking December 16, 2017 article in The New York Times, revealing the existence of a classified Department of Defense UFO study known as the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP), three persons affiliated with that project—former U.S. Senator Harry Reid, former AATIP director Luis Elizondo, and former AATIP physicist Hal Puthoff—have publicly acknowledged repeated UFO incursions at ICBM sites over the years, including cases involving unexplained missile system disruptions.¹

Consequently, the still-classified events that I have been researching since 1973, and lecturing about since 1981, have now been authoritatively verified as real and characterized as a potential threat to U.S. national security.

However, concurrent with my investigations and public speaking, there has also been an intentionally unpublicized aspect of my involvement with the UFO phenomenon. As I am about to divulge in a new book, over the past three decades a series of bizarre, frightening incidents have occurred involving direct interactions with what I have come to believe are non-human entities. In other words, I am an experiencer or, expressed more dramatically, an alien abductee.

As I readily admit, I cannot indisputably prove that these visitations/abductions actually took place, but having endured them again and again, since August 1988, I steadfastly and unapologetically maintain that they were physical in nature and not explainable as misinterpreted prosaic events, or due to a psychological disorder, or the result of sleep paralysis. I never anticipated this situation and deeply regret that it entered my life, but it is very real and clearly beyond my control. Whether it materialized as a result of my research or some other factor is unknown, however, one strange childhood incident suggests that this otherworldly presence may have first appeared many years ago.

Understandably concerned that a frank public admission regarding all of this would negatively impact my reputation as a credible source for military-related UFO information, I have hitherto remained silent about my sometimes terrifying paranormal encounters. However, now that I am approaching the age of 70, and experiencing certain serious health issues, I’ve concluded that the time has come for me to openly acknowledge my secret life.

But I am not the only one who is coming out at this time. The new book is co-authored by former U.S. Air Force officer and now-retired university professor Dr. Bob Jacobs, who has also had a number of apparent alien visitation/abduction encounters over the years. Jacobs is best known for his chance participation in the Big Sur UFO Incident, at Vandenberg AFB, California, in September 1964, during which a UFO was inadvertently captured on motion picture film by Jacobs’ telescopic camera crew during a missile test launch.²

Without warning, the domed, disc-shaped craft suddenly entered the camera frame, first pacing and then circling a dummy nuclear warhead in flight—before shooting it down with weaponized beams of light! Debunkers have unsuccessfully attempted to discredit this amazing case by repeatedly misstating the facts and ignoring the testimony of a second former USAF officer, Dr. Florenz Mansmann, who has confirmed that the Top Secret event did indeed take place. According to Mansmann, two CIA officers confiscated the filmed record of the shocking encounter and transported it aboard a “special aircraft” to Washington D.C.³

In any case, in May 2012, while videotaping interviews with Dr. Jacobs and other military veterans who were willing to divulge their involvement in still-classified, nuclear weapons-related UFO incidents, I cautiously revealed my secret abductee status to Jacobs. Much to my surprise, he responded by telling me of his own frightening, entity-related experiences. Stunned to learn that we were independently being subjected to similar, highly disturbing phenomena, we subsequently began to update each other via email following each new incident. Earlier this year, after much hesitation and reflection, we decided to publicly divulge our disconcerting situation in CONFESSION: Our Hidden Alien Encounters Revealed (#ad), which is now available at Amazon.

After decades of secrecy, Jacobs and I basically feel relieved to have finally opened up about our experiences, despite the skepticism that we will undoubtedly face from many members of the public. Regardless, our hope is that other abductees, especially former military personnel who worked with or guarded nuclear weapons, will be encouraged to come forward and reveal their own alien encounters. Actually, a few such veterans have already done so and those startling accounts also appear in the book. Briefly, it now seems that during at least a few of the well-documented UFO incursions at ICBM sites, much more was occurring than the disruption of the missiles’ functionality; human lives were being disrupted as well.

In conclusion, after years of investigating and writing about nuts-and-bolts UFO cases, I have now embarked on a new, challenging endeavor. Despite the pleas of several friends and acquaintances, urging me not to go public with my personal encounters, I have no regrets about doing so. Although not yet recognized as valid by most scientists and much of the public, the alien abduction phenomenon is real, global, and tremendously important. That these non-human entities are somehow part of humankind’s overall future seems clear to experiencers; one day it will undoubtedly be obvious to everyone.

Dr. Jacobs and I will appear on investigative journalist George Knapp’s Coast to Coast AM radio show on November 17/18, 2019, to discuss the book and our previously hidden encounters with the unknown.

References:

1. Hastings, Robert and Jacobs, Dr. Bob. CONFESSION: Our Hidden Alien Encounters Revealed, KDP Publishing, 2019, pp. 64-67 

2. https://www.nicap.org/articles/MUJ-January_1989.pdf 

3. Dr. Florenze Mansmann to Lee Graham, personal communication, March 10, 1983

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UFOs are Stalking and Intercepting Dummy Nuclear Warheads During Test Flights

Seeking USAF Veterans Who Had Abduction-Like Experiences at Nuclear Missile Sites

Alien Abduction Research Expands

REPORT YOUR UFO EXPERIENCE

LARRY KING LIVE | VIDCAST: ". . . Have UFOs Shut Down Our Government's Defense Systems?"

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"More BS from CSI on Big Sur"

By Robert Hastings
ufohastings.com
2-7-09

     Journalist Terry Hansen is the author of the excellent book, The Missing Times: News Media Complicity in the UFO Cover-up, which authoritatively exposes the U.S. government's infiltration of the American elite media over the last several decades—for the purpose of covertly promoting officially-sanctioned propaganda on a variety of subjects, ranging from communism to UFOs.

Regarding CSICOP [now renamed the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry, or CSI], Hansen examines the possibility that the organization which publishes Skeptical Inquirer magazine was infiltrated early on by a small but determined group of U.S. government-affiliated operatives, whose true motives have far more to do with disinformation than skepticism.

He writes, “[The Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal] is an organization of people who oppose what they contend is pseudo-science...CSICOP, contrary to its impressive-sounding title, does not sponsor scientific research. On the contrary, its main function has been to oppose scientific research, especially in areas such as psychic phenomena and UFOs, two topics that, coincidentally or not, have been of demonstrated interest to the intelligence community over the decades. Instead, CSICOP devotes nearly all of its resources to influencing the American public via the mass media. As author Jerome Clark, editor of the International UFO Reporter, once pointed out, ‘CSICOP’s ability to influence media is legendary. It’s Manual for Local, Regional and National Groups devotes 17 pages to ‘Handling the Media’ and ‘Public Relations’ and, tellingly, a mere three to ‘Scientific Investigations’…’ ”

Hansen continues, “CSICOP can accurately be described as a propaganda organization because it does not take anything approaching an objective position regarding UFOs. The organization’s stance is militantly anti-UFO research and it works hard to see that the news media broadcast its views whenever possible. When the subject of UFOs surfaces, either in the news media or any other public forum, CSICOP members turn out rapidly to add their own spin to whatever is being said. Through its “Council for Media Integrity” CSICOP maintains close ties with the editorial staffs of such influential science publications as Scientific American, Nature, and New Scientist. Consequently, it’s not too hard to understand why balanced UFO articles seldom appear in those [magazines].”

Hansen also notes, “...CSICOP [now CSI] members typically publish their thoughts on UFOs and other 'paranormal' phenomena via Prometheus Books, a closely related publishing house that also offers a surprising number of volumes on such topics as child-adult sexuality, prostitution, sadomasochism, and pornography. It would be interesting to know which titles sell better; those devoted to debunking UFOs and paranormal research, or those about sex. Perhaps it's worth pointing out at this point that cross-subsidizing unprofitable activities with profitable ones has been a hallmark of many covert intelligence operations.”

The long-time and still-current Executive Editor of Skeptical Inquirer, Kendrick Frazier, worked for more than two decades as a PR Specialist at Sandia National Laboratories—although one will have to look high and low to find references to that employment in his magazine and even in his self-published online biography. Sandia Labs is one of the U.S. government's most important nuclear weapons labs.

Those of you familiar with my research know that a UFO-Nukes Connection has been confirmed by hundreds of declassified USAF, FBI and CIA documents, as well as by the courageous testimony of nearly 100 USAF veterans who were involved in still-classified incidents. According to these documents and sources, UFO activity at America’s nuclear weapons sites has been ongoing since 1948. Most dramatically, reports of Minuteman missile malfunctions, occurring just as a UFO was in their vicinity, are now offered by several former Air Force missile launch and targeting officers stationed at various U.S. Air Force bases during the Cold War era. One of my launch control sources even refers to the temporary activation of his missiles by a UFO. My interviews with these persons appear in my book, UFOs and Nukes.

So, who is routinely trying to debunk the reality of UFOs and the notion of a UFO cover-up in CSI’s Skeptical Inquirer magazine? Why, a PR guy working for the U.S. government's nuclear weapons program! (Although he is strangely shy about publicly acknowledging where he picked up his paycheck for over 20 years, during the same period he was feverishly debunking UFOs, supposedly because of his “skepticism” about them!)

One of the nuclear weapons-related UFO cases CSI has attempted to debunk is the Big Sur Incident, which involved the filming of a UFO shooting down a dummy nuclear warhead in flight, on September 15, 1964—according to two former U.S. Air Force officers, Dr. Bob Jacobs and Dr. Florenze Mansmann. Frazier's rag tried to debunk the case in 1993, by publishing a demonstrably bogus article by Kingston A. George. Now, in the wake of my well-documented investigation of that case, which I posted at my website in 2008, Skeptical Inquirer's latest issue once again attempts to erase the Big Sur UFO Incident from public consciousness, with another article by George, in which he uses the same sleight-of-hand tricks, distortions, and outright falsehoods he trotted out earlier. In other words, it’s the same BS, newly-packaged.

I am currently preparing a rebuttal and will post it on this forum and elsewhere. The title will be: "Kingston George's Latest Comments in Skeptical Inquirer on the Big Sur UFO: Deep Denial or Disinformation?"

The actual facts about Big Sur may be found on the ARTICLES page at my website, ufohastings.com.

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Larry King Live: Debate Over Existence of UFOs

By Lexus Nexus & Factiva
7-19-08

     LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, have UFOs shut down our government's defense systems?
There is evidence that something caused missiles to malfunction during test launches. Former Air Force officers tell their incredible story about the film that was confiscated by the CIA and what was on it and why don't officials want us to see it.

Find out right now on LARRY KING LIVE.

Good evening.

We begin with allegations that UFOs have interfered with missiles at U.S. Air Force bases and aliens are monitoring nuclear warheads and bombs.

Our first guests claim UFOs have activated missile systems at five Air Force Bases in five different states. They also claim a cover-up, that the United States government is keeping the information secret.

Former Air Force officers and an investigator are here with their stories.

Here in Los Angeles is Robert Hastings. He's author of "UFOs and Nukes." I have the book right here. The book is available at ufohastings.com. He has been investigating sightings at weapon sites for years.

Bob Salas is a former captain U.S. Air Force base -- of the United States Air Force. He was at Malstrom Air Force Base in 1967, where there were claims that a UFO caused missiles to malfunction. He's co-author of "Faded Giant."

Bob Jamison is with us, a former U.S. Air Force officer. He was at Malstrom, as well, in 1967 and he says his superiors told him UFOs caused the malfunctions.

And in Peoria, Illinois is Dr. Bob Jacobs, former lieutenant, U.S. Air Force, former U.S. Air Force photographic instrumentation officer. A UFO showed up on film that he shot in 1954 at Vandenberg Air Force Base and that was later confiscated by CIA agents.

All of our guests are named Bob, so I'm going to call them by their last names.

We'll start with Robert Hastings. How did you get -- what's your explanation for UFOs at nuclear weapon sites?

ROBERT HASTINGS, AUTHOR, "UFOS AND NUKES," RESEARCHES SIGHTINGS AT NUCLEAR WEAPONS SITES: I can simply say, after 35 years of research, that these incidents have taken place. There are hundreds of declassified documents which indicate that UFOs have demonstrated a distinct and ongoing interest in our nuclear weapons sites. I've also interviewed nearly a hundred gentlemen who were involved in these incidents at various Air Force bases. This is very widespread. What you're seeing here this evening is the tip of the iceberg.

KING: How do they cause a malfunction?

What do they do to cause something to not work?

HASTINGS: I think that's probably still an unknown. I know that Boeing engineers attempted to duplicate some of the malfunctions. They did succeed in doing that, but they still can't call -- determine what initially caused them. Bob Salas can address that.

KING: Bob, what happened at Malstrom in 1967?

BOB SALAS, FORMER USAF OFFICER, WORKED AT BASE WHERE MISSILES MALFUNCTIONED: In 1967, I was on duty as a missile launch officers. I got calls from my guards upstairs. First, I get one call saying that they're seeing strange lights flying in the sky. And I didn't pay too much attention to that. About five minutes later, the main security guard -- the flight security controller calls down and says he's looking at a glowing red object, very large, hovering over the front gate. And he wants to know what to do.

I tell him to secure the facility. We hang up. I go to tell my commander. So within seconds of that call, my missiles start shutting down. I recall losing all 10 of them.

KING: You didn't see the object?

SALAS: I didn't see the object because I was obliged to stay underground in the capsule.

KING: By shutting down we mean what?

SALAS: By shutting down what I mean is they were not launchable. They were in no go condition, disabled.

KING: How long to restart them?

SALAS: How long to restart?

Well, I'm sure it took over a day and maybe (INAUDIBLE).

KING: Now, Bob Jamison you were there too, right?

BOB JAMISON, FORMER USAF OFFICER, SUPERIORS TOLD HIM UFOS CAUSE MISSILE MALFUNCTIONS: Yes, sir. KING: And you were in the Air Force?

JAMISON: Yes, I was in the Air Force. I was...

KING: And where were you when this was happening?

JAMISON: Yes, I was a tightening -- I was a tightening officer, a missile targeting officer. I was at home relaxing and I got from job control to come in. A missile had gone down. My job as a target officer was to bring them back up. And so I went in to...

KING: But you didn't see the incident, you just went to the missile?

JAMISON: No, I went to the incident. I went to the site.

KING: Where is Malstrom?

JAMISON: It's Great Falls, Montana, just outside of Great Falls, Montana.

KING: What did you make of the story?

JAMISON: Well, I know that it's The Skeptic Society. I went into job control after I got to the hangar. I was called in. I went to the hangar. I went to the job control. And I noticed they have a map of the whole complex, the green lights where the missiles are good. But there's one small area with 10 red lights. It means those missiles were out.

KING: Is it possible they just malfunctioned?

JAMISON: That doesn't happen. Very rarely does a missile malfunction. And I don't think any -- much more rare would be two at the same time. But never 10.

KING: Now, Bob Jacobs, where were you?

What were you filming and where were you?

DR. BOB JACOBS, USAF (RET.), FORMER USAF PHOTOGRAPHIC INSTRUMENTATION OFFICER, FILMED UFOS, FILM LATER CONFISCATED BY TWO CIA AGENTS: I was in charge of optical instrumentation at Vandenberg Air Force Base in from 1963 to '66. Our job was to photograph...

KING: That's California?

JACOBS: That's California. That's right there on the coast. And our job was to photograph, with high speed instrumentation, every missile launch from Vandenberg going down the test range. They wanted to find out if we could figure out a place to put a telescope where we could get a side view of the missile, so that we could see all three stages of powered flight.

So I went up to Big Sur, California, up on an air -- on the U.S. Forest Service road on Anderson Peak and installed a telescopic site up there. And the Air Force flew in a huge catarctic telescope from the Cape. It was built by Dr. Walter Manning at the Boston University.

They put this telescope up there. And with that thing, which had a focal length of 2,500 inches, we photographed an Atlas missile raising up out of the fog cover and flying downrange. We got all three stages of powered flight. And as the dummy warhead and the package flew on down the range, we were all celebrating the fact that we had seen the thing and accomplished the mission.

When I got back to the base with the film, the next day I was called into the office of Major Florenze J. Mansmann. And there were three people in gray suits standing in there. There was a .16 millimeter camera and a screen set up.

Major Mansmann said lieutenant, sit down and watch this. And he turned down the lights, turned on the camera -- on the projector and the film came on. And I recognized it as the film that we had shot at Big Sur the previous day.

Toward the end of the flight, I was looking at Major Mansmann saying pretty good stuff, huh sir?

And suddenly he said just watch this.

And as I watched, the warhead -- the dummy warhead, the chaff that was put out in front of it as the decoy to deflect the Russian anti-missile missile tracking radar -- everything was flying along and suddenly, in the same direction this stuff was flying, at about 8,000 miles an hour, an object came into the frame, shot a beam of light at the warhead, flew up to the top, shot another beam of light at the warhead, flew around the direction it was flying, shot another beam of light at the warhead, flew down to shoot another beam of light at the warhead and then flew out the same way it came in.

KING: Well, I don't understand.

JACOBS: And that's (INAUDIBLE)...

KING: Why didn't you see this when you were shooting it?

JACOBS: Well, it was 600 or 800 miles away from us.

KING: Oh, I got you.

JACOBS: All of this...

KING: And they confiscated...

JACOBS: We only could see this...

KING: They confiscated...

JACOBS: Well, first of all, Major Mansmann said to me, what was that?

Were you guys screwing around up there? I said, no, sir. And he said then tell me what that was. And I said we got a UFO. And he said, lieutenant, you are never to speak of this again. As far as you're concerned, this didn't happen.

KING: Hold on, guys.

JACOBS: And for...

KING: We've got to take a break. OK. That's weird.

Do you think there's an actual defense plan for aliens?

It sounds crazy. We'll ask about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not alone in witnessing something extraordinary. That's the bottom line.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Powerful beaming spotlights.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Triangular in shape, sitting on three legs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No type of aircraft that I've ever seen before.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rapidly maneuvered and quickly disappeared.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Accelerating to very high speeds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were just trying our cars...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what we were seeing, it don't resemble anything known to us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Bob Jamison, we'll make this clear, you were asked to say nothing?

JAMISON: I was not asked to say nothing. In fact, no one admonished me and I did not sign an oath saying that I can't say anything.

KING: So, what -- there was no cover-up as far as you were concerned?

JAMISON: That's correct.

KING: You just...

JAMISON: I can tell. I can speak about it.

KING: You can tell what you saw. Do you think there's a plan for invasion by aliens?

JAMISON: I wouldn't presume to know that. I simply know that the U.S. government does not obviously appreciate people, such as myself and these gentlemen, speaking out about this. What we're describing, on an ongoing basis, decade after decade, at multiple Air Force bases, is just disruption of our nuclear missiles.

KING: We have an e-mail from Kyle in Plainville, Massachusetts: "Why would UFOs only disable U.S. defense systems and not another country? Is there a lesson to be learned in all of this?"

Or do you think maybe -- Bob Salas -- they have disabled other countries?

SALAS: They have. I know that there have been events in the Soviet Union where they have interfered there. They've been seen in just any country you could name. You know, I do disable communications that's (INAUDIBLE).

KING: We have an e-mail from Eric in Atlanta, Georgia: "What can be done, if anything, to force the U.S. government and/or military to declassify and release all it knows about UFOs?"

Dr. Jacobs, when do you think that would happen?

Do you think that would happen?

JACOBS: It would take a revolution in public opinion. The problem with this field is that it's surrounded by so many crackpots and weirdoes who make a joke about it, that those of us who take it seriously and think that something definitely is going on and it needs to be scientifically investigated, are laughed at. The technician here in the studio where I am, I said were talking about UFOs tonight and her face lit up and she got that kind of hmmm look, which is typical of what happens to us.

I think that we need to a real scientific committee to be put together to look into these things. I think Rob (INAUDIBLE) too.

KING: I agree.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.

KING: Bob Salas, do you agree?

SALAS: Yes. I would like to make a comment real quick. The Air Force has perpetrated a fraud, especially in our case. They claim in their statement about UFOs that nothing has -- no UFO incident has ever affected national security.

And we lost 20 missiles during the cold war. They also stonewalled the Condon Committee at that time. The Condon Committee had heard about our incident and were told to go away. They said they were told that no UFOs were involved.

And then the Air Force turns around and uses the Condon Committee as a reason not to further investigate UFOs.

KING: Robert Hastings, in doing all these shows, what confounds me is, if all of this is The Skeptic Society, what are they afraid of?

What's the government afraid of?

HASTINGS: Victor Marchetti is a former high level CIA official. He wrote the book "CIA and The Cult of Intelligence" in 1975, a best- seller. The CIA tried to prohibit that being printed.

He, Victor Marchetti, in 1979, wrote an article regarding what the CIA thought about UFOs. He alluded to rumors at the agency of crashed UFOs and the recovery of bodies of aliens. More to the point, Victor Marchetti said that, in his view, as an intelligence analyst, he thinks that the power structures, the elite, the status quo, people in every country on earth who are in on the secret, are really trying to maintain their own power and status and don't want to rock the boat.

KING: An e-mail from Christian, Brighton, Colorado: "When is the Air Force going to stop lying to the people and finally tell them the truth about alien visitation? The American people are paying their salaries and they are supposed to defend and respect the Constitution of the United States of America."

Bob Jamison, do you ever think we'll ever see it?

Do you think we'll ever see an Air Force official, the secretary of the Air Force come on and say here's the story?

JAMISON: Perhaps through more programs, such as this we can get the public tuned to the fact that there were -- are UFOs. They're not going to hurt you, I don't think. And they haven't hurt anybody that I know of. And I think that, perhaps, through more programs such as yours and such as these people are bringing out...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And a government investigation immediately.

JAMISON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An open investigation.

KING: There's never been one, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

SALAS: Not really, no. I mean in 1968 was the last Congressional hearing on UFOs -- 1968.

KING: Forty years.

SALAS: Forty years. We need another one. We need a strong one. Hopefully, the next administration will do that.

HASTINGS: There's been a lot of behind-the-scenes manipulation of Congress by the military lesson personnel. KING: Because of what -- fear of what?

HASTINGS: Well, again, Larry, these gentlemen are talking about nuclear missiles being dropped offline. The Pentagon does not want the Russians or, previously, the Soviets to know that. It's going on in the Soviet Union, as Bob Salas has said. But I have interviewed persons who were involved with the Minutemen missile bases in the '60s, '70s, '80s and '90s. And they say this is continuing to occur.

I've actually interviewed a gentleman a year ago who said that his missiles were activated by UFO. And I describe that in detail in my book. I asked him to come on this program and he declined, I think because he's uneasy about talking publicly.

KING: There are skeptics, not a surprise. Bill Nye, the science guy, is here when LARRY KING LIVE returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It does not contain any pattern of purpose or of consistency.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it's not a weather balloon nor an aircraft nor a missile. It is something else.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know what they saw in '47, but I'm quite sure it probably was Project Mobile.

CWO JOHN HAU (RET.), U.S. NAVY: Nothing we had at the time, could fit the description, size and shape.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Go to CNN.com/larryking right now and take our quick vote.

Is the United States government hiding knowledge of UFOs?

Let us know what you think.

Joining our panel is Bill Nye, the science guy. He's a scientist, engineer, best-selling author and Emmy winning television personality. He's, by the way, a member of The Skeptic Society and a fellow with the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry.

Now, Bill, assuming that these distinguished gentlemen are not lying, we have three former members of the Air Force and Robert Hastings who's looked into this for a long time, what's your thought?

BILL NYE, "THE SCIENCE GUY": Well, in the skeptical world, in science, we look at claims. We look at individual claims. So I noticed that in the intro to your show and stuff that you -- there are several UFO incidents all mixed in together.

But let's talk about the one in 1967, right? This is your problem at Malstrom Air Force Base in Montana.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Malstrom.

NYE: So the nuclear missiles went down right?

So if you go look at the documents that these guys have offered, if I understand it, as evidence, you look at some of them -- and you don't have to look read it, but you see there's something blacked out, OK, redacted. That's a guy's home address. They don't want you to publish your home address.

Here's one with a whole bunch of people's office phone numbers and stuff. And it looks spooky and scary.

KING: But what's your point?

NYE: Well, it looks spooky and scary, but it turns out that that day, or the day before, the power had gone out in some of the chiller units, the air conditioning, OK?

And Boeing was called out -- Boeing makes the Minuteman missile -- because all these things went down and they wanted to know what had happened.

KING: So the man who called him and said he saw something outside, he didn't see something?

NYE: Well, let me just say, when you see something, a lot of people see something. And a lot of people see things that are really -- they can't identify. But that doesn't mean they were -- it's quite a leap...

KING: So you're saying it's a coincidence.

NYE: Yes.

KING: This guy thought he saw something and the missiles go out?

NYE: And then you talk to people who were there...

KING: All right. Bob Salas, how do you respond?

NYE: ...and it's very compelling. And these documents

KING: Hold up.

NYE: I just want to address this.

KING: OK. Let him respond.

NYE: When you respond, address that one of the officers suspected that somebody had been drinking, OK?

SALAS: I never heard that.

NYE: OK?

(CROSSTALK)

SALAS: I never heard that explained that anybody was drinking.

Let me say, first of all, the missile shutdowns had nothing to do with power failure. There is triple redundancy on power. We've got Montana Power. We've got a backup generator. We've got batteries, OK?

The power...

KING: You've never seen missiles go down due to a power failure?

SALAS: Not really, because of all that backup on power. So this had nothing to do with power. The second point. The flight security guard that reported this was about less than 100 feet away from this object. He was looking at it through his window. It was right outside the front gate, right above the gate. It was a glowing red object, pulsing.

NYE: OK.

Did you see it?

SALAS: No. I couldn't see it.

KING: No, he delegate 2006 election it.

SALAS: I couldn't see it. I couldn't leave the capsule. But within seconds after that report, the missiles shut down.

Now, was that a coincidence?

NYE: Well, it's hearsay, as we say in the courtroom.

SALAS: It's not hearsay.

NYE: Well, you're saying that this guy told you.

SALAS: It was testimony.

KING: Well, you're not saying -- I'm not asking you -- you don't think he's lying?

NYE: No.

KING: All right.

So the guy did tell him?

NYE: He did tell him and he saw something. And, coincidentally, the missile shut down.

KING: All right. OK. The guy saw something.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coincidentally is called... (CROSSTALK)

KING: Wasn't that a weird coincidence?

NYE: Yes. I mean I've -- many times I've flipped a light switch and you hear a siren.

SALAS: What if the same thing happened a week earlier, only this time 10 missiles go down, a lot of security guards see the UFOs right above the what are five other missile bases...

NYE: OK. So why don't we...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...on repeated occasions.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that a coincidence, too?

I mean you can buy the two -- are those two coincidences?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...the 1950s, '60s, '70s and '80s.

KING: One at a time. One at there are time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, but here's the thing. It's not...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's over a hundred people, they'll...

NYE: Well, in science it's not evidence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wish -- I wish Edgar Mitchell were here. But in any case...

KING: It may not be evidence, let's say, but it is certainly a source of...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, a hundred people are telling the same story at different Air Force bases over a four week period.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These guys were entrusted...

KING: One at a time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...with weapons of destruction by the U.S. government.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And there's a hundred now who are coming forward and saying UFOs shut down their nuclear weapons.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So we have a mass psychosis...

KING: All right. In the interests of time...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...among our nuclear missile forces?

KING: Hold it. In the interests of time, Dr. Jacobs, he takes pictures, he comers back, they call him in. They show him the pictures of this strange thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw it. I'm an eyewitness.

KING: He saw it. They confiscate.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: And they confiscate it?

NYE: Yes.

KING: Why?

Why?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not talking about people who reported...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wouldn't be surprised...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead.

KING: Yes, go ahead.

JACOBS: Do you mind if I speak, Mr. Comedian?

KING: Go ahead.

JACOBS: I was there. I was there. I saw the film with my own eyes.

I'm not lying.

Why would I?

I'm a university professor with a Ph.D. and a lot of years of good respectful research. So the (INAUDIBLE) officer may not have seen the UFO, but they saw the results of it. I saw the damn thing on film with my own eyes, so don't call me a liar and you weren't there, I was.

NYE: I didn't -- with all due respect, I'm not calling you a liar. It's just quite a step to say there was a film with remarkable images on it that the CIA confiscated, which I saw and which...

JACOBS: It's quite a step they did.

NYE: Yes. Which is quite a step from there to say it was definitely a spacecraft from another civilization. That's the leap that the skeptical community is reluctant to take.

JACOBS: Listen, I didn't -- hey, pal, listen to me. I didn't say it was a space ship from another civilization. I said it was something in the air that we couldn't identify. Therefore, it was an unidentified flying object. It was shaped like two saucers put together with a golf ball on top. And it fired a beam that we assumed was a plasma beam at a dummy warhead and knocked it out of space. Tell me what happened. Tell me who did that. Tell me in 1964 who had that technology, pal. Not us and not the Russians and nobody I know of.

So come on Mr. Skeptic, what about it?

NYE: So what's your conclusion?

So what's your conclusion?

JACOBS: What's your conclusion?

NYE: What are you saying?

Well, my conclusion is that something happened that you don't know what it was. And I wouldn't be surprised if it had something to do with another aspect of military testing in the sky that night. And it's a much more reasonable explanation...

(CROSSTALK)

JACOBS: We had nothing -- there was nothing in our inventory that could do possibly do that.

NYE: So let's do -- let's do this other little thought experiment, everybody. OK, let's say this has been going on since 1967, routinely, right?

There's an old joke in broadcasting...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you going to do this with baking soda and vinegar, Bill?

KING: Hold on. We're running out of time.

(LAUGHTER)

NYE: It's an old joke in broadcasting...

KING: What is it?

NYE: Well, it's like trying to photograph a car wreck. At one time, considered an impossible thing to do. If you sent out a news crew, OK, let's go shoot a car wreck, that was a joke. Well, now, routinely on the nightly news we see car wrecks. We see car wrecks on the freeway, we see car wrecks behind us. KING: Why was it a joke that your...

NYE: Because there's -- because there didn't used to be a camera everywhere. There are millions and millions of cameras. There are billions of digital pictures taken every week.

KING: So you're saying he -- they -- you're not saying there are no UFOs, you're saying they haven't been proven?

NYE: I'm saying that it's quite a step to see something you don't know what it is in the sky to say that there are alien spacecraft...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you've got to understand Dr. Jacobs...

NYE: ...that are monitoring our nuclear weapons.

KING: He has seen this, Dr. Jacobs.

NYE: Well, I understand that.

KING: Now, so you're -- if you're questioning what he's seen...

NYE: No. Well, I'm questioning his -- the conclusion that the technology did not exist in 1964 to produce images on film that the CIA would want to confiscate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I may?

JACOBS: Well, in 1964 you were trying to figure out what...

NYE: That's quite a step.

JACOBS: In 1964, you were trying to figure out what girls were. I was in the service as a senior scientist (INAUDIBLE) capacity.

NYE: Sir, you can attack me...

JACOBS: So get off your skeptic high horse, pal.

NYE: But that doesn't -- well, it just doesn't...

JACOBS: You're attacking us.

NYE: It's quite a step...

JACOBS: You're the one who's making ad hominem attacks and saying that's quite a step.

You bet it's quite a step.

HASTINGS: If I may?

If I may?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, please.

KING: All right. One at a time, please. We've got two minutes left.

HASTINGS: The other person, the other former Air Force officer, retired Air Force officer involved in it was charged with photo analysis of this film. Florenze Mansmann, who's now deceased.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Florenze J. Mansmann.

HASTINGS: I've spoken to his widow. I have correspondence -- private correspondence between Dr. Jacobs and Dr. Mansmann, actually. And 20 years later, they are marveling over what they saw. Mansmann's professional assessment at Vandenberg in 1964 was that this was an extraterrestrial craft.

NYE: OK. So he made that conclusion.

HASTINGS: That's correct.

NYE: OK. All right.

HASTINGS: And I can send you -- I will give CNN -- I'm trying to get the national media involved in this as much as possible. I will send anyone any correspondence for any newspaper, any radio station, TV station, any scientist, any member of your group, all of the original documentation...

KING: All right, we...

HASTINGS: ...where these gentlemen are discussing the subject 20 years later.

KING: All right, we're going to have -- we're going to do a lot more on this, because we do a lot on UFOs.

We thank you all for coming. And we thank Dr. Jacobs.

But when we come back, we're going to really get into it -- a double debate. We're going to have a physicist, a lecturer, a researcher and a documentary filmmaker go up against Bill Nye and Dr. Seth Shostek into a two versus two on this whole subject.

Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think it was possible it was from another world?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My Air Force training says I can't think that way, OK?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know what I saw. And I get very upset. And I was wondering why they won't find out what it was?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Until somebody actually sees it, they have no idea. No idea.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A story this big, there's no way it could be kept secret. What do you say to something like that, who says that?

COL. GORDON COOPER (RET), ASTRONAUT: Well, somebody's kept it pretty secret for quite a while, haven't they.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Four distinguished gentlemen will now debate that reasonably. They are here in Los Angeles, Stanton Friedman, a physicist, lecturer and a UFO researcher and author of "Flying Saucers and Science." James Fox is a documentary film maker and UFO researcher, the executive producer of "Out of The Blue," and finishing up a new film, the working title "Beyond The Blue." Bill Nye, our science guy, remains. And in Boston is Dr. Seth Shostak, the senior astronomer for the SETI Institute. That stands for the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. He's the host of the weekly radio program, "Are We Alone."

All right, Stanton, it is Bill's contention that, yes, people have sighted things. Yes, there are reports. But we don't know there are unidentified flying objects from other planets.

STANTON FRIEDMAN, PHYSICIST: Well, you know, I admire Bill's courage. I can't imagine a well-trained scientist who's an expert at communicating science to the general masses of people, who has courage enough to go on a national, international television program, to talk about something which he hasn't researched, something which he knows nothing about and pretend he's being a scientist about it. Frankly, I'm sick and tired of the debunkers making their research be proclamations.

Bill showed a document with, you know, names redacted. How about this is a CIA document, it took me five years to get, about UFOs. Not just names redacted.

KING: Are you saying, Stanton, as a physicist, that there are unidentified flying objects that have come from other places?

FRIEDMAN: Yes. I'm going beyond that. That's why the book is flying saucers and UFOs.

KING: They would be unidentified.

FRIEDMAN: Yes, I'm saying some UFOs are intelligently controlled extraterrestrial spacecraft. We're dealing with a cosmic Watergate, meaning a cover-up by the government. And there are no good arguments against those two. And we're dealing with the biggest story of the millennium.

KING: Before I have Bill respond, let's have Dr. Shostak respond. Doctor, what do you know or not know?

SETH SHOSTAK, SR ASTRONOMER, SETI INSTITUTE: Stanton likes to say, those of us who are not doing the UFO research shouldn't opine about them. And I find that not such a convincing argument, because frankly, I don't do black hole research. I'm an astronomer. I don't do black hole research. But I can read a paper about black holes and decide whether it sounds credible or not. Is the guy who did it credible? Was the paper reviewed? Are other scientists convinced? Can I repeat the experiment?

There's no reason Bill Nye, nor I, can't offer a serious opinion on this subject. So I regret that he said that.

Secondly, you're not offering --

(CROSS TALK)

KING: Don't interrupt. Let's bring in James Fox. Do you know that -- do you know -- you're not a scientist, but a filmmaker -- do you know that objects have come from other places, not the Earth?

JAMES FOX, DOCUMENTARY FILM MAKER: Here's my theory.

KING: Theory.

FOX: Two possibilities, the observed phenomena -- By the way, I've got a little document here that was released from the Air Material Command, General Nathan Twaining (ph), admitting on the 23rd of September, 1947 that the phenomenon is real and not visionary or fictitious.

KING: What do you know?

FOX: Basically, there's an observed technology for at least 60 years that one can easily establish, the ability to hover without making sound, without disturbing the air and accelerate from the standpoint to out of sight in the blink of an eye. Either there's an agency within some government in the world that is in possession of that technology and has kept it under wraps for 60 years. I can definitively say that.

KING: The government could be ours.

FOX: And it's terrestrial explanation. There's a terrestrial explanation for that technology, or there isn't.

KING: Or the government could be ours, too.

FOX: Or the government could be ours, which would explain that they've kept this technology under wraps for 60 years or more.

KING: Could you unequivocally, Bill, say there are no objects coming from outer space? Can you say that?

NYE: Of course not. There are definitely objects coming from outer space. There's 100,000 tons of --

KING: I mean manned alien.

NYE: -- dust that lands of day. Put a sheet out every night. You will find dust.

KING: Aliens.

NYE: I'm very skeptical. As we say in science, the simplest explanation is generally the best one. So here's our problem, I think: people are confident that the United States government has covered things up.

KING: Right.

NYE: And indeed, if you read recent publications, stuff declassified last year, and I didn't read the book, but if you read something like "Legacy of Ashes" about the CIA, the CIA has covered up a lot of things. A couple times, they got their own forces shooting at themselves because one part of the organization didn't tell the other part of the organization.

KING: What's your point?

NYE: My point being that the U.S. government could have accidentally led people to believe that there was a lot more going on than there really was. And so this ability of the U.S. government to create these rumors, generally inadvertently, may I say, has led people to have confidence that when they can't explain something by traditional means, it must be some amazing, never-before experienced --

KING: Let me get a break in. We'll come right back. Where are these so-called space aliens coming from? What do they want from us? We'll ask after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: There's still time to participate in our quick vote; is the United States government hiding knowledge of UFOs? Head to CNN.com/LarryKing right now and weigh in. Yes, by the way, right now, is in the lead. Before we continue, let's take a look at a clip from James fox's new movie. It involves a Japanese airliner. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ahead on the radar, approximately five miles in front of your 6:00 position. Do you concur?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We cannot identify the type. It's quite big.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The CIA said, to all the people there, this event never happened. Who are you going to believe? Your lying eyes or the government?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Why is the government covering up, Stanton?

FRIEDMAN: In my book, I have a whole chapter on six reasons for it. You want to figure out how they work. You worry about the other guy figuring out how they work before you do, because they make wonderful weapons delivery and defense systems. You don't want them to know you know they know kind of thing. If a big announcement were to be made, there would be -- what, church attendance would go up, mental hospital admissions would go up, the stock market would go down, but there would be a big push for earthling orientation. No government wants that.

And fourth, some of the religious extremists --

KING: Do you, Dr. Shostak, believe there would be a panic?

SHOSTAK: No, absolutely not, Larry. Polls have shown since the 1960s that something like 50 percent, 60 percent Americans believe we're being visited by saucer sailing aliens that occasionally abduct you for experiments that are inappropriate on a first date. And nobody's rioting in the streets about that. "New York Times" announced it tomorrow, I think people would say, I knew it all along.

KING: Our latest Associated Press poll shows 14 percent of Americans claim they've seen a UFO and 34 percent say they believe in UFOs. James, you had eyewitnesses you spoke to in Arizona, right, who told you they saw. They saw what?

FOX: There was a craft. It's a the boomerang shaped craft. It's up to a mile across. It's flew extremely slowly.

KING: A mile across.

FOX: A mile across. It flew extremely slowly. People had to fly directly over. We're not talking about an ambiguous light off in the distance. Directly over their house, so low they could have hit it with a rock.

KING: How many people told you they saw it?

FOX: There's been over 1,000 people who have come forward. I talked to at least 150 from all over the state of Arizona, including the governor of Arizona, who did launch an investigation with the Pentagon, local Air Force base, Luke Air Force Base.

KING: What happened in the investigation?

FOX: They shrugged their shoulders and said, we don't know what that thing was.

KING: How do you respond? They're not lying, Bill. What do you think?

NYE: My recollection was the Air Force said they had a flight of F-16's that dropped flares that night. It's a big V.

KING: These people are not --

FRIEDMAN: That was at 10:00, not 8:30.

FOX: The real thing happened at 8:30. It started in the north and headed all the way down.

NYE: One explanation is --

FRIEDMAN: People couldn't tell time.

NYE: One explanation is people -- something happened in the evening and we have confused the time. Another explanation is there's an alien spacecraft.

KING: OK. Are you open to that possibility?

NYE: Not in the case of the one in Phoenix. In this case -- I don't have the documents in front of me, in all fairness.

FRIEDMAN: You haven't studied the evidence is what it boils down to, Bill.

NYE: That's where I really disagree with you, Stan. I've studied the evidence pretty well.

FOX: When this craft took off -- and I talked to people across the state of Arizona. They said, had I blinked I would have missed it. It didn't make any sound. It didn't disturb the air. It didn't make a sonic boom. And it was at least a mile across, including the governor of Arizona saw this thing.

FRIEDMAN: And he's a pilot

FOX: And he's a pilot and former captain in the Air Force.

NYE: On CNN we had footage of that.

(CROSS TALK)

FOX: No footage of that. I'm about to uncover footage that --

KING: Let me get a break. Why do we presumes that aliens, if they are out there, are so much smarter than we? Interesting question. We'll try for an answer. Phone calls, too, after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: I don't know what it is. We're back. OK, calm down. Stanton, a good point from an avid listener. We've lived through many administrations of this. We've lived through Johnson, Nixon, all right, a whole bunch. We've had Republicans, Democrats, scientists. All of them are covering up? Nobody, nobody -- no official has ever said, I want to look into this?

FRIEDMAN: As they say --

FOX: Jimmy Carter on camera -- I was the first person to get Jimmy Carter on camera saying that he tried to launch an investigation and he got nowhere. I got Gerald Ford in a phone interview, he did the same thing. KING: How could a president get nowhere?

FOX: He got nowhere. Bill Clinton tried to launch an investigation.

KING: The CIA is hiding all this from presidents?

FOX: We don't know it's the CIA. It's some sort of quasi- government, quasi-military --

NYE: Here's the thing, the CIA hides stuff from the president, but that doesn't mean they are extraterrestrial.

KING: Why, Stanton, on this topic would there be a giant cover- up?

FRIEDMAN: Because it affects everything we think about ourselves. As I said, if we make a declaration that indeed aliens are visiting, people are going to want to push for an earthling orientation. We have 300 million people --

FOX: What orientation?

FRIEDMAN: A new identity. Instead of as Americans, Chinese, Greeks, Peruvian --

KING: OK.

FRIEDMAN: Who speaks for the planet. We're going to hold an election, right? But the Chinese have 1.3 billion. India has one billion. We have 300 million. We're not going to give up that -- they have a common goal to stay in power. That's what government is all about, Larry. You know that.

FOX: Look at it on a smaller scale, like with Fife Symington. Fife Symington made a joke out of that sighting that happened in 1977. He had one of his aides dressed up in an alien suit. This massive craft flies over the state of Arizona. The governor said there was mounting pressure from his constituents to get to the bottom of it, growing hysteria. He holds a press conference. He has his aide dress up in an alien suit and males a joke out of the whole thing.

The reason why he did that -- he told us ten years later -- is because they didn't know what it was. People were freaking out.

KING: An e-mail from Anne in Duncan, Oklahoma: "UFO conspiracy theorists say the U.S. government is conspiring to keep extraterrestrial contacts a secret. Why wouldn't aliens themselves make their presence known to the world? If they can travel light years to get here, they don't need government permission for anything." Don't you think they would do that, Seth?

SHOSTAK: Of course they would. Look, you just have to look at the historical analogs, Larry; 1492, Columbus lands in America. Ten years later, Spain is sending 25 ships filled with colonists to the Americas. If you had asked the North American natives ten years after Columbus, do you think we're being invaded? It doesn't matter what their military wanted to do, what the chiefs wanted to do. They knew they were being invaded. It's been more than 60 years since Roswell. As far as I can tell, my flights still take off on time from the local airport. No aliens whatsoever.

KING: Why don't they come, James?

FOX: Here's the thing.

FRIEDMAN: I don't talk to the squirrels in my backyard, Larry.

FOX: I asked this exact question to Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 astronaut, sixth man on the moon; I said why won't they just land? He said -- he really looked at me and said, well think about it, James. Don't you think if you went to a distant world, don't you think you would want to sit back and observe a little bit?

KING: Why do they observe Wyoming and not Washington?

(CROSS TALK)

FOX: Washington was buzzed in 1962. It was captured on radar, photographed, caught on photograph.

NYE: That's your claim. What do I do?

FOX: It's a fact.

NYE: What do I do as a civilian when the U.S. Air Force says, well, that was some flight testing we were doing and we covered it up. What do you do when they declassify the --

FOX: Are they hiding this technology for 60 years? Maybe they are. But if they're hiding this technology, they shouldn't be, because somebody's in possession of technology that could really be beneficial to all of humanity.

(CROSS TALK)

FOX: I don't know. Maybe they're not. Maybe it is alien visitation. I don't know. I can't prove that. But I can tell you --

KING: Do you think aliens have visited here?

FRIEDMAN: No question about it. The evidence is so powerful. And I wish that Seth, who when he attended my lecture admitted he hadn't read any of the --

KING: What do they want, the aliens, do you think?

FRIEDMAN: I got a whole long list of bottom line, they're here to quarantine us.

KING: Quarantine us?

FRIEDMAN: Hey, we're primitive society whose major activity is tribal warfare. I worked on fusion propulsion systems. Everybody in the neighborhood is going to know about fusion. That's what makes the stars work. Within a short time, we'll be able to take our brand of friendship, which everybody else calls hostility, out there. Remember, this is a planet that killed 50 million of our own kind in World War II.

NYE: You're saying the aliens are afraid that we will take over their technology?

FRIEDMAN: I didn't say that.

FOX: This is all speculation right now. Let's start talking about the facts.

NYE: That's where we disagree, is on the facts.

(CROSS TALK)

FOX: We have government documents basically stating that these things exists.

NYE: Have you been to Wright Patterson Air Force Base?

FOX: Of course I have.

NYE: You've been there, Larry, it's cool.

(CROSS TALK)

KING: They don't show you an alien, do they?

NYE: I had security clearance for a while.

FOX: What would you do if you saw one of these things?

NYE: First of all, I would take a picture of it, a good one.

FOX: Then what?

NYE: Then I would look at the picture carefully.

FOX: And then laugh at yourself because no one would believe you.

KING: Let me get a break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Is that a cow? We're back -- I'm trying to figure out, is that a cow?

NYE: Cows watching UFOs.

KING: Einstein's theory of relativity, you can't travel faster than light, right? FRIEDMAN: Yes, but as you get close to the speed of light, time slows down. You can go 39 light years in six months pilot time if you're at 99.99 percent speed of the light. We physicists make particles that go --

NYE: They become infinitely massive.

(CROSS TALK)

NYE: Here's what I'm saying, that's a much better explanation that we don't know enough about it. But -- but, Stan, you made a point before break that the U.S. Air Force will not let you see everything. I should hope not. I hope the U.S. Air Force has a few things up their sleeves.

FRIEDMAN: I had 14 years under security.

NYE: But that doesn't mean that the stuff that you can't see at, for example --

KING: Let me get a call in. New Orleans, hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry, how are you doing?

KING: Hi.

CALLER: I would like to know how often are eye-witnesses given a polygraph to prove that they're telling the truth rather than making up a story just to be on TV?

KING: Are they, James?

FOX: It happens.

KING: Are they given polygraphs?

KING: It has happened. Benny Hill passed one on national television.

(CROSS TALK)

KING: Seth, you are a skeptic? You think we'll ever know the whole story, or will never know the whole story? Seth?

SHOSTAK: Sorry, I didn't hear -- the whole story -- the bottom line is, Larry, this: Stanton has some insight into alien sociology. He knows what they want. He's failed to convince the scientists of the world. When he does that, you'll have real investigation in this. It will move from the area of fantasy to real science. I'm waiting for that to happen.

FOX: Here's the problem. I just got back from a meeting with the French CNS, the French equivalent of NASA. France has -- I don't know if people know this, but France just released their UFO files, which basically confirms that the UFOs are real.

KING: They say that.

FOX: Yes.

KING: France has announced that UFOs are real?

FOX: The head of CNS just released 50 years of profiles. I went to interview the guy, Jacques Pattinet (ph), just recently, and I said to him, this is an amazing discovery. How are the French reacting to that? He said, no one is jumping out of windows.

KING: Not only is anybody jumping out of windows, it ain't a story. I haven't seen it.

FOX: It did get covered a little bit, not a whole lot, but a little bit.

KING: Why not?

FOX: I don't know.

NYE: There's a lot of things --

FOX: You had a show about it. England followed suit and releasing their documents. I asked him. I said, what would you like to say to the American government? He said, don't be afraid to tell the people the truth.

NYE: Exactly. You see something in the sky that you don't know what it is, it doesn't mean they're aliens.

FOX: Sixty years of technology --

KING: But if France announces that they're there, why doesn't that impress you?

NYE: What does they're there.

FOX: It's 50 years of scientific study.

NYE: You guys --

FOX: It's been soil analysis, photographic analysis.

NYE: When I was young you couldn't make a plane without a vertical tail. Now you can. That doesn't mean that there are aliens.

FOX: I'm not saying there are aliens. I'm saying there are disk shaped craft, physical phenomena that defy physics as we understand it today.

KING: Do they defy physics?

FRIEDMAN: No, it means we don't know how to duplicate it yet. That doesn't mean it's impossible. I worked on fusion propulsion systems. It's what goes on in the sun, a lot of energy per pound in material, back 40 years ago, Larry. We haven't built a big system because it takes a lot of money and effort.

KING: Guys, we're out of time. Thanks. Another in our series of programs searching for an answer. Go to CNN.com/LarryKing for transcripts, ring tones, photo galleries, and more. Don't forget about tonight's vote: is the United States government hiding knowledge of UFOs? And we've got a UFO commentary from the former Arizona governor. Our latest podcast, Barack Obama, is all ready for downloading. You can also sign up for our news letter or cell phone text alerts. It's all at CNN.com/LarryKing.

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