Showing posts with label Part III. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Part III. Show all posts

Wednesday, April 18, 2012

Science and UFOs: Part 3—Deep Denial Disguised as Rational Skepticism


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By Robert Hastings
www.ufohastings.com
4-18-12
     As noted in Part 1, the late Dr. James E. McDonald—who held the title “Senior Physicist, Institute of Atmospheric Physics” at the University of Arizona—also holds the distinction of being one of the very few scientists to actually study the UFO phenomenon. In a prepared statement before the U.S. Congress’ House Committee on Science and Astronautics, delivered on July 29, 1968, McDonald said this:
“From time to time in the history of science, situations have arisen in which a problem of ultimately enormous importance went begging for adequate attention simply because that problem appeared to involve phenomena so far outside the current bounds of scientific knowledge that it was not even regarded as a legitimate subject of serious scientific concern. That is precisely the situation in which the UFO problem now lies. One of the principal results of my own recent intensive study of the UFO enigma is this: I have become convinced that the scientific community, not only in this country but throughout the world, has been casually ignoring as nonsense a matter of extraordinary scientific importance.”1
Scientists universally profess allegiance to the lofty principles comprising the Scientific Method, both in the pursuit of their own research, as well as when reviewing the work of their peers. Therefore, one might predict that they will indignantly dismiss the suggestion that, on occasion, they have temporarily abandoned those cherished principles. Nevertheless, as regards the subject of UFOs, very few scientists actually practice what they preach.

In essence, to engage in science is to search for knowledge. This exploration is conducted through the systematic collection and objective analysis of facts. If one aspires to understand the nature of an unexplained phenomenon, one must first assemble and evaluate data—or, at least, impartially examine the data gathered by others—before drawing conclusions.

Unfortunately, most scientists reject outright the validity of UFO research, refuse to engage in it, and deliberately ignore the intriguing data compiled by a handful of their more inquisitive, less-biased peers. If this were not enough, despite their profound unfamiliarity with the subject, many of these same intransigent individuals pontificate about UFOs in the most shameless and presumptuous manner. If they were to apply this same “methodology” to their own research, their colleagues might justifiably consider their conduct incompetent, if not fraudulent. Nevertheless, it is rare to hear a scientist speak knowledgeably about the UFO phenomenon and rarer still to find one who has actually studied it.

Accuse a scientist of being closed-minded about UFOs and he or she will recoil: “I’m not closed-minded, but I am skeptical!” Because the former term implies inflexible prejudice and the latter one prudent caution, it is understandable that these UFO “skeptics” would prefer to view themselves in a more flattering light.

One scientist who has advocated a comprehensive, unbiased investigation the UFO phenomenon, astronomer Dr. Bernard Haisch, defines a Skeptic as, “One who practices the method of suspended judgment, engages in rational and dispassionate reasoning as exemplified by the scientific method, shows willingness to consider alternative explanations without prejudice based on prior beliefs, and who seeks out evidence and carefully scrutinizes its validity.”2

By Haisch’s definition, very few scientists are true skeptics on the subject of UFOs. On the contrary, over the years, most have behaved as self-appointed experts, having all the answers, without first investigating any of the facts. Although scientists profess a deep curiosity about little understood or unknown phenomena, when it comes to UFOs, this assertion rings hollow. At the moment, the UFO phenomenon is a blind spot in most scientists’ field of vision. There is definitely something there to be seen, but they can not, or will not, bring themselves to take a look.

As noted earlier, the late Dr. James McDonald—one of the few scientists to have actually studied the UFO phenomenon before holding forth on the subject—once pointedly criticized the thoroughly unprofessional posture toward UFOs he observed among his colleagues and the scientific community at large.

Sad to say, some 40 years after Dr. McDonald’s lament, the same smug, dismissive attitude toward the phenomenon remains firmly entrenched in scientific circles, resulting in a pervasive, self-imposed ignorance about UFOs among those who supposedly seek the truth. At the beginning of the 21st century, it remains true that the overwhelming majority of scientists, if they consider UFOs at all, consider them to be beneath their dignity, and worthy of outright derision. With this self-righteous stance, they have effectively abdicated their collective professional responsibility in the most unscientific manner. This is not so much an accusation as it is an objective statement of fact.

Fortunately, despite the collective disinterest in UFOs exhibited by the scientific community as a whole, there have been a few brave pioneers. In the mid-1960s, Jim McDonald was well ahead of the curve, with his repeated, plaintive calls for a legitimate investigation of the UFO phenomenon. Seeking to review the available data for himself, he persistently demanded access to the Air Force’s UFO files—at least those held by Project Blue Book—and was ultimately granted repeated access to the ones that were not classified.

Following those reviews McDonald had written, “…There are hundreds of good cases in the Air Force files that should have led to top-level scientific scrutiny of [UFOs] years ago, yet these cases have been swept under the rug in a most disturbing way by Project Blue Book investigators and their consultants.”3

Despite, or perhaps because of, the Air Force’s ongoing attempts to suppress the frequently high-quality data on UFOs it collected, McDonald began to investigate the phenomenon on his own time and at his own expense, while ignoring the very real risk to his scientific reputation. This diligence paid off and, by 1968, McDonald was widely regarded—although not among his still-dubious peers—as one of the world’s leading scientific experts on UFOs. Consequently, he was invited to address the United States Congress on the subject, during hearings held that year. McDonald’s full statement before the House Committee on Science and Astronautics, presented on July 29th, may be found in the U.S. Congressional Record, as well as on the Internet.

While acknowledging that the overwhelming majority of UFO sightings undoubtedly had prosaic explanations, and that a great many questions about the phenomenon remained unanswered, McDonald succinctly summarized his conclusions regarding the most credible of the unexplained cases: “My own present opinion, based on two years of careful study, is that UFOs are probably extraterrestrial devices engaged in something that might very tentatively be termed ‘surveillance.’”4

Although this was merely an opinion, it was after all an informed opinion on UFOs, something very few other scientists could offer, then or now. Many of McDonald’s published papers, private research notes, and personal letters relating to his investigations of the UFO phenomenon are now accessible online, providing insight into the cautious, rational reasoning underlying his dramatic conclusions.

There is an old joke about the intellectual who sniffs, “Well, it may work in fact, but it will never work in theory.” While most UFO skeptics are quick to dismiss as impossible the idea that UFOs are alien spacecraft, very few of them will ever make the effort to learn whether any evidence exists to suggest otherwise. Instead, they merely continue to assert that, as an idea, it simply does not work. However, as the joke implies, the real question to be asked is whether it works in fact. That is, is there evidence in the real world which lends credence to the validity of the ET hypothesis of UFOs?

Granted, the proposal that UFOs are alien spaceships is decidedly counter-intuitive. For most scientific professionals, the notion just doesn’t make sense and almost certainly has no basis in reality. However, as is often the case in science, many ideas which initially seem impossible, or at least highly unlikely, eventually turn out to be true. As a noted cosmologist once observed, “The greatest obstacle to the advancement of science is the illusion of knowledge—the notion that one already knows the answers.”

Precisely. At the end of the day, practicing science still involves asking questions and seeking answers, whatever those answers turn out to be. However, a scientist must actually adhere to, not just reflexively espouse, these fundamental principles. Pontificating about UFOs from the comfort of the armchair contributes nothing to the solution to the problem. To honestly attempt an understanding of UFOs, one must actually investigate the UFO phenomenon, however pointless or distasteful this proposal might seem to some.

A thousand-mile journey begins with a single step. To those curious but still-uninformed scientists who wish to learn the facts, I respectfully recommend reading Dr. McDonald’s Prepared Statement to Congress as that first step.

References:
1. McDonald, Dr. James E. “Prepared Statement before the House Committee on Science and Astronautics”, July 29, 1968
2. UFOskeptic.org
3. [Tucson] Daily Citizen, March 1, 1967
4. McDonald, Dr. James E. “Prepared Statement before the House Committee on Science and Astronautics”, July 29, 1968

Tuesday, February 14, 2012

Interview with Colonel Ariel Sanchez (Part III) – Uruguay Air Force Openly Researches UFOs for More Than Three Decades

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A. J. Gevaerd & Coronel Ariel Sánchez

A. J. Gevaerd By A. J. Gevaerd
Editor Brazilian UFO Magazine
2-13-12

Not a dangerous phenomenon

AJ:
Are there scientists as well?

CAS:
Yes. It is important to integrate scientists and technicians to this work. They could then cooperate with the Air Force of many countries. The object of our study is something which is in the sky. In Uruguay, though, it had not been harmful to humans. However, it is still there affecting our air space. That is the reason why the Air Force is interested in investigating the subject at technical and scientific levels, not to mention the military and strategic view. This is the work of our Committee.

AJ:
Speaking as a civilian what is your personal opinion about the nature of these objects?

CAS:
It is difficult to forget my military background and give a civilian opinion. In fact every opinion I express I do it as a military because people will always see me as one. I try to be objective without killing or supporting any idea that could be on the UFO phenomenon. I think some of the cases we have investigated might have a scientific explanation, but I don’t know what explanation would it be. There are many possibilities and I work with evidence, because I think as an investigator. In order to do something in this field one must have evidence on the table and I have analyzed them tirelessly. If we talk about my convictions we would be talking about beliefs or something more spiritual. I prefer scientific evidence of UFOs, because this is what can convince me and everyone else. UFOs should not be a matter of faith or something one wants it to be.

AJ:
Do you believe in more advanced life in planets out of our solar system?

CAS:
Yes. I believe in intelligent life in other planetary systems. There must be other forms of life in the universe such as other organisms, cells, or whatever else. To some extent, it has already been proven that Mars had some form of life. Even water was found there. It seems water was found in the Moon as well, below the surface crust.

AJ:
Wouldn’t those species out there be wondering about intelligent life in other planets as well?

CAS:
That’s a good question! I think the answer is yes. We would be just too ignorant to go against Frank Drake’s theories, such as his famous equation, and other people who already suggested the possibilities of multiple forms of life in the universe. (See UFO 179, also available at www.ufo.com.br)

AJ:
You have described interesting cases. Can you tell us how Cridovni’s chain of investigation works from the initial report until the investigation findings?

CAS:
Well, once we receive a phone call at the Air Force our standard procedure is put in place. It means we would assign an investigation team from our Committee to go and talk to witness and hopefully collect some evidence. This group is normally made of two or three people. They would get to the place and talk to people who could give them pictures, videos, etc. Then we scan the area to sketch trees, mountains, rivers, power lines, airports nearby, etc. We would also make pictures and talk with witnesses’ neighbors.

AJ:
That summarizes a typical UFO investigation.

CAS:
Exactly. It is a police style investigation. We talk to witnesses, but we would also ask their neighbors if they had seen anything strange that would confirm the first story. Many times more information can be acquired from other witnesses.

AJ:
In case of landings, do you collect samples?

CAS:
Yes. In case there is any signal of a landing we would collect samples in order to check for mineral or chemical composition. After collecting all information and evidence available we would send to the national Department of Mineralogy and Geography samples which could be analyzed by a lab. They would make the analysis and call us back for the results.

AJ:
What would be Cridovni’s next step in this case?

CAS:
After collecting all these information we take them to our Technical Department for assessment. Our work is very well assigned. For example, an initial survey team would make the first collection of information and evidence then submit them for analysis. Results from this would be taken care of by our Technical Department, who assesses the investigation and could ask for new interviews with witnesses. There might be the need for different questions the Operative Department did not make. Therefore, we have the chance to get back to witnesses and collect new evidence which maybe we didn’t collect in the first time.

Aeronautical point of view

AJ:
What are the duties of Cridovni’s Operative Department?

CAS:
The team also looks for the circumstances in which the sighting took place in an aeronautical point of view. We look for data on military or civilian aircraft that might have been passing over the area at the time, movement of satellites, information on astronomical facts, meteorology, geology, etc. We also research for military maneuvers in the area — which have already been found in two of our cases — that might have led people to consider a UFO hypothesis. We try to raise all possible information that could support an investigation.

AJ:
How long does an average investigation take from the first interview with witnesses until conclusion?

CAS:
It could take a week in general. It depends on the facts. When there are physical evidence with samples to be analyzed, the lab might take a few days to return to us with the results. When we have photo evidence, then the technicians might take a few more days to issue a report. Sometimes it takes long because we don’t have staff exclusively dedicated to this work. We use the resources provided by the state of Uruguay, the Air Force and partner universities. As for image analysis we are lucky to have a team in Boiso Lanza air base which works with aerial photography. When we need their services, we just send them the pictures.

AJ:
Cridovni seems to be very thorough in its different stages of investigation and confirmation of facts.

CAS:
Yes. I think the conclusion of an investigation could take a week to 10 days. For example, when Uruguayan national football team arrived in Montevideo coming from the World Cup a lot of unusual images appeared in the sky in pictures taken during celebrations. This investigation took us almost two weeks because more and more pictures appeared as the news spread through the media. The Committee was overloaded with e-mails. We received more than 60 pictures not only related to that event, but also from other places or times. We needed almost two weeks to analyze everything.

AJ:
And what was that all about?

CAS:
Regarding the pictures taken during the mass celebration we found that they showed a known object.It could have been a paper or nylon balloon. So many balloons were launched in the sky that time and people were confused when they spotted something different in their digital pictures. There were no direct witness testimonies on this fact, only pictures.

AJ:
Getting back to Cridovni’s investigation methods, could you please describe each step of its procedures?

CAS:
After we gather all possible information on a certain case we make five basic questions:

  1.  Can it be a hoax prepared by the witness? 
  2.  Can it be a hoax prepared by third parties?
  3.   Can it be a collective hallucination?
  4.  Can it be a conventional event not identifiable by the witness?
  5.  Can it be something unconventional?
The very last are the most interesting ones. However, only after every possibility is checked we can start our analysis on witnesses and evidence. Among other resources, we have psychologistsin order to make a profile of witnesses. We also have astronomers, engineers, pilots, flight controllers, meteorologists, etc. As I said, we are very rich in human resources specialized in different fields of expertise so that we can assess each and every case. Then, all the documents produced go to the Technical Department.

AJ:
You said a team of two or three people is assigned to go to the field and meet the witnesses. How are they selected? Do they wear military uniforms?

CAS:
They wear uniforms, sometimes they even go on military vehicles. It depends on the situation. For example, someone could call me at 10h00 PM and I have to rush to the scene. Then I would call an officer or even a civilian from our Committee to join me in that mission. This would be a team of two or three people, depending on the urgency of the matter and the availability of personnel at that moment. It is important to say that we are called at any time and we must be ready. I am the one who decides who goes to the field. I can appoint and official or a civilian from the Committee or I can go myself to the mission.

Joint operations

AJ:
How many civilian ufologists does Cridovni have? What are their duties?

CAS:
There are many veteran investigators. Some come from Uruguayan research groups and were invited to take part in our group when it was created. In the 1970s there were half a dozen civilian organizations working with Ufology in Uruguay. When the Air Force created the Committee in 1979 all of them were invited to participate in a joint investigation work.

AJ:
That is wonderful! This is exactly what we are trying to reach with the Brazilian Air Force (FAB) by means of our campaign “UFOs: Freedom of Information Now”.

CAS:
Thank you. Therefore, around 30 civilians entered and still remained in the Committee. That group was later reduced to around 20 researchers and today we are something between 12 to 18 civilian and military altogether.

AJ:
How many among these are civilians and how many are military?

CAS:
At the moment we are only three military — a lieutenant, a lieutenant-colonel, and a colonel who is the chair of the Committee, this is me. I have two other officials scheduled to work which will make us five military on duty. Then we have eight civilian researchers making a total of 12 permanent members. Besides these ones we have occasional members, assistants who participate depending on the case. If we need a photo analysis, for example, we rely not only on the Air Force analysts we borrow. We have also an engineer specialized in image analysis who would also participate in the investigations. The Committee’s permanent staff is made of 12 people: five military officials and seven civilians.

AJ:
What is done when an investigation finds out that an object is not a conventional thing?

CAS:
When conclusions point to an unconventional matter, then the case is archived and remains pending, because there is nothing else we could do about it — unless new information appear to tell that, in fact, it was a conventional phenomenon.

AJ:
Aren’t these the most interesting ones? Why are they archived then?

CAS:
I can give you an example. Suppose a black triangular-shaped object is spotted and captured in pictures by a military crew who managed to chase and reach it. Up to this point it is an unconventional case. However, imagine that we have later information that it was an experimental aircraft from a friendly air force who would be, let’s say, lost in that region due to communication problems. Such kind of information might reach us many years later and will force us to reopen a case in order to give it an explanation. That is why we keep archived cases as pending and waiting for information we do not have at the time of their investigation.

AJ:
In case of a significant unconventional occurrence who do you report to? The Air Force commander, the president of the Republic, any other national body?

CAS:
In this case we would always inform the Air Force commander, because our Committee is under him. So I must report him anything involving the Air Force, such as an unconventional occurrence, for example. After that, the information is relayed to the minister of Defense and the president of the Republic. In case it is a very important occurrence, the president will decide on what to do.

Presidential knowledge

AJ:
Do you have any idea about how this information is dealt with or do you only report them as a matter of duty?

CAS:
We report to the president so that he is aware of what goes on within our territory which is his jurisdiction. There is a very interesting case which could answer to your question. In 2007 we received a report from a Lufthansa aircraft whose route was Buenos Aires-Europe through Uruguayan and Brazilian airspace. When flying over the River Plate the pilots spotted an object going upwards in very high speed and close to their aircraft. It missed the cabin by meters. This case came to the knowledge of the president.

AJ:
Would you please tell us more about this case?

CAS:
This is a very interesting case and involved our diplomacy in an unprecedented way. We received a report from the Lufthansa aircraft which was going from Buenos Aires to Europe. They should fly over Uruguayan and Brazilian territories. When they were over the River Plate, which is the border between the two countries, the pilots spotted an object going upwards, very close to their cabin and in very high speed. It missed the cabin by meters only. The fact was registered as an air incident and the crew immediately contacted the traffic control at Ezeiza airport, in Buenos Aires, to report that an object had crossed its route. The pilots thought it could be a missile and, of course, the fact was reported since it threatened their flight safety. Another aircraft — a Uruguayan this time — also spotted the same object while flying over the River Plate.

AJ:
What happened next?

CAS:
The crew described a low altitude flying object which suddenly went up crossing between both aircraft, but closer to the Lufthansa. The crew of both aircraft describe the same scene: a very fast artifact, though only the German crew thought about a missile. Our Committee immediately started an investigation. As it was an important case — which quickly spread through the media and included around 20 witnesses on the ground — we acted swiftly.

AJ:
What did witnesses on the ground report? Did they see the same the crew saw?

CAS:
Yes. The fact occurred at around 04h00 when many people in rural areas were starting their daily work in the field. Those people saw an object in Colonia del Sacramento (a city neighboring the River Plate, 150km West of Montevideo, far away from Buenos Aires) and other regions of Uruguay and Argentina. All of them report seeing the same thing, as if a projectile had crossed between the aircraft. The crew had at least four professionals: the pilots and the flight engineers in the Lufthansa and the Uruguayan aircraft. This is, therefore, a highly credible case and calls for a thorough investigation.

AJ:
No doubt about that, especially with likely radar readings and ground witnesses. What happened then? Where does the president fit in this whole story?

CAS:
When we started investigating we had to go to Colonia in order to talk to witnesses. At the time I was a lieutenant-colonel and directly participated in the procedures. We received Lufthansa’s report through the official channels, that is, the Uruguayan Ministry of Foreign Affairs. They reported the threat to that flight’s safety and the pilots’ description of what they had seen. However, when Lufthansa’s report reached our government the investigation had already on.

AJ:
What procedures were put in place?

CAS:
One measure was consulting the Argentinian government, because someone spoke of a missile and we didn’t have any reason to doubt that possibility or the possibility of a high performance aircraft. Four land engineers confirmed having seen from their car an object at the horizon. The object then went up. The engineers also said to have seen something like a light explosion which ran upwards faster than the object itself. That was what made us think of a missile in its second phase. There are projectiles which work though different phases. It could have been something fired from a submarine at the River Plate. Do you remember that case at the Canary Islands which was found to be a missile launched from a submarine?

AJ:
That case is a classical example. So you mean the suspicion of a submarine between Uruguay and Argentina would be the reason for the involvement of diplomatic offices? Was that the reason why you informed the president of the Republic?

CAS:
Exactly. Although we still didn’t have any confirmation about the missile, we informed the president. In the end, the case was found to be an unconventional event, because we didn’t know if that was a high performance aircraft or anything else. We could not discard the missile hypothesis which we couldn’t confirm that time either. Therefore, the case remained open.

AJ:
What did the president do when informed on the facts?

CAS:
The chain of command was initiated. We sent the report to the Air Force commander, who forwarded it to the minister of Defense, who, in turn, informed the president. The Committee has no direct access to the minister or the president. We don’t know what they did with this information. However, the case went public. It was in every media in Uruguay or Argentina. There was a great commotion.

AJ:
How does Cridovni act in cases involving another country?

CAS:
An event like this which involved a neighboring country is a very serious issue. We relayed the information we had to the Argentinian Air Force (FAA) and I spoke in person with their public relations officer. He immediately dismissed the possibility of that being a missile or a secret aircraft of their own. So we had to inform the minister of Defense as well. The minister made our investigation public by means of a press release (available online). It mentions an air incident, not a UFO case.

Thursday, February 14, 2008

EXCLUSIVE – Interview III With Mike Fortson - Eye Witness To Enormous V-Shaped UFO - AKA "The Phoenix Lights"

Phoenix UFO 2
By Frank Warren
© 2-14-08

Note-As we approach the 11th anniversary of the so-called "Phoenix Lights" of March 13, 1997, and in lieu of recent "similar events" in Stephenville, Texas, the following is a continuation of a series of interviews/articles with and by direct eye witnesses of this monumental event.

Although many who witnessed this huge "V-shaped craft" have come forward, there are a great deal more who haven't; research concerning this case is ongoing to this day, and it is our hope by highlighting the event(s) and the individuals who witnessed it, more people will come forward and share their experiences. Comments are always welcome, and if requested confidentiality will be honored-FW


Part III

FW: Mike we left off in "part II" of our interview retracing your movements shortly after your life changing experience; you mentioned Dr. Bruce Maccabee's arrival in Phoenix, as well as the first meet at the "Village Labs" . . . let's begin there.


Previously you wrote:

Those present at the first get together at Village Labs on March 16, 1997 were: Jim Dellitoso (sp), Michael Tanner (both of Village Labs), Bill Hamilton (MUFONAZ), Tom King (shot 10 PM video from Steve Blonder’s home with Bill Hamilton), Richard Motzer, Tom Taylor (Both with MUFONAZ), Scott Montgomery and his wife (he shot video of F15’s chasing the orbs), Ozma Linderman and her boyfriend, both are 8:25 witnesses from Scottsdale), Mike Krysten and his wife Sue (he shot the famous footage at 10 PM), Mike Fortson and wife Nannette (8:30 PM witnesses), there were a couple radio people there, and Strange Universe filmed the entire meeting. There were probably others but my memory fails as this was nearly 10 years ago as to the rest of the visitors. MUFONAZ had acquired 4 or 5 videos and they were played for us. That’s when I stood up and said, “that’s not what we saw!”.

Village Labs

Can you elaborate a little more for our readers about the Montgomery's sighting of the F-15 pursuit of "the orbs?"

Mike Fortson (C)MF: Gladly. First of all I need to try to clarify which type of fighter jets Luke AFB sent up that night. Luke Air Force Base is located near Glendale AZ., and is home to the 56th Fighter Wing and is a training site for the F16 Fighting Falcons. From the very beginning there have been questions as to which fighters went up to investigate the strange aerial objects reported that evening. Were they F16’s or F15’s? It is true that the training fighters are the F16. But, it has been reported that there are at least 2 F-15’s on base for “special reasons”. Although it is not proven, it has been suggested very strongly that the fighters that pursued the enormous V shaped craft were F-15’s.

I met Scott Montgomery for the first time at Village Labs on March 16, 1997. As I wrote earlier, this was the first meeting of those witnesses who made the early calls to speak of their sightings. There were a variety of videos that were played. The "5" 10 PM videos, the only known 8:25 PM video, and Scott Montgomery’s video. One that I really found interesting and got a real kick from was Scott’s video which he shot in the late evening on March 13, 1997, from his home near Goodyear, AZ., which is west of Phoenix about 35 miles or so and much closer to Luke AFB than any of the other videos. Scott’s video by professional standards is a terrible video. He did not use a tripod. But, in my opinion, it isn’t what is recorded on the video of Scott’s film that is so interesting, but the audio. Scott was filming strange orange “orbs” that were being chased by fighter jets (2) either F-15’s or F-16’s. The major issue the so-called UFO investigators disliked about Scott’s video is he never stayed with one object. He kept going from the jets to the orbs…back to the jets….back to the orbs, etc. This was constant and really not that good of a video. But what the investigators failed to do was listen to what Scott was saying while filming. They failed to hear the immense excitement in his voice. This young man was incredibly excited over what he was seeing/filming. He was trying to get all this while looking thru the viewfinder. He didn’t have the luxury of using the pull out window of today’s video cameras. Remember this was 1997. In his defense, it is very hard to film such an impossible sighting while trying not to lose important observation time. The video is moot. The audio will better help explain the adrenaline rush one gets during such an extraordinary sighting. Truth is Scott’s video is better understood with your eyes closed. Just listen to what he’s screaming while filming.

Scot Montgomery and his wife are not mentioned in any reports by any investigators, nor have they been interviewed by any media outlet; because of his age and his poor video, Scott’s sighting is not to be found anywhere and is treated by the so-called investigators as if it did not happen. In my opinion this is a shame, because Scott’s excitement and the way he was trying to describe what he was seeing/recording is the real important factor here. I still smile when I think of his video. If you would be fortunate enough to see it, (hear it) you also would get a “kick” out of it. If anything humorous was to be written about of the incredibly strange sightings of March 13, 1997, Scott’s video wins first place.

FW: You say, Scott's video was "shot in the late evening" . . . do you know the exact time, or close to it?

Bill Greiner(Sml)MF: No. I don’t know for sure. I’m pretty sure that his sighting was well past all the 8 o’clock activity. And I’m also assuming that what Scott has on video is what truck driver Bill Greiner also saw and reported that night as well. Bill Greiner’s report and stories are available online and also Greiner was interviewed in the June 18, 1997 USA Today. He’s the one who claimed, ”I’ll never be the same!”

FW: One account attributed to Greiner is as follows:

"Bill Greiner, a truck driver, was driving on Interstate 10 when he first saw the lights, and when he parked his truck at 10 pm he saw two illuminated 'toy tops, as he calls them, with red rings around them.

Mr Greiner then witnessed three F-16 tighter jets take off from the nearby Luke Air Force Base. "One of the jets started to close in on the 'toy top' object, which is glowing and pulsating with a red rim
around it. As the jet tries to intercept it just goes up and disappears."

Lieutenant Colonel Hauser from Luke Air Force Base admitted to having F-16 jets in the area at the time of the sighting, and said that they were on a training mission."

To the best of your knowledge is this accurate?

MF:Yes. Bill Greiner’s report has not been debunked by anyone. I have met him, shared our experiences, and I believe him.

Luke AFB

Funny thing here …originally Luke AFB claimed all the jets were tucked away for the night and did not participate in any chasing or involvement to the strange aerial objects that night. Most of us know differently, as there were at least 3 or 4 separate events where fighters pursued the massive V’s. One-5:30 pm., MST, near Crown King (north of Phoenix app.80 miles) 2- 8:25 or 8:30 near Phoenix metro area. 3- 10:25 or 10:30 near downtown Phoenix and the 4th between 9:30 and 11 PM west of Phoenix near Goodyear. All sightings witnesses claim fighters approached or tried to approach the massive V shaped craft.

FW: If the a fore mentioned account is accurate, then that gives a us a time-line presumably for Montgomery's video, even if the video is "poor," the fact that "military aircraft" were involved, mush less in pursuit of "unknowns" is prevalent to the so-called "Phoenix Lights case." Additionally, you're now saying that there was "military activity" as early as "5:30" . . . can you please elaborate.

MF: There are several reports called into Village Labs by witnesses who were off I-17 south near Crown King at a rest stop called Sunset Point. It’s a nice touristy type stop with beautiful mountains on the west side of the interstate. According to reports that would be in the possession of Michael Tanner, witnesses described 3 massive V shaped craft in close proximity of each other, in low altitude and within a mile or so from the witnesses. This got the attention of several drivers and it was intriguing enough to make them pull over and observe the massive crafts. The time is app. 5:30 pm. On March 13, 1997, this would still be daylight! Reports claim that as 2 fighters approached from the south, the 3 V shaped craft “pancaked” on top of each The Phoenix Lights Mystery By Bill Hamilton (Sml)The Phoenix Lights By Dr Lynne Kitei (Sml)other, formed a white ball of light and vanished! The fighters circled the area for a few minutes and left the area heading south. This event is also mentioned in Bill Hamilton’s book, “The Phoenix Lights Mystery” and Dr Lynne’s book, “Phoenix Lights”. For over 11 years now, there haven’t been any TV producers willing to air this report. They all claim that it’s just too far out there and the general public would have a hard time dealing/believing the reports. I would also add that no photos or videos were taken as well, unfortunately. This is one of several fantastic reports surrounding “The Massive UFO Flyover of Arizona, March 13, 1997” and proving my missive, “The Non-Investigation of the Phoenix Lights”. It’s an unbelievable shame so many of the reports will never get out. Everyone (producers) tries to simplify things so the public can better understand what happened. In other words, the public is being misled, intentionally.

FW: Working backwards . . . mainstream media in general are poor investigators/researchers regarding Ufology, (for starters) and their actions certainly indicate they have "other goals" then to "get the story straight" or get "all" the facts.

Mike, in my view the ramifications pertaining to "military involvement" as early as "5:30" is monumental! This means "they were on alert" and had time to not only "gear up" for any "emergencies" but to "ponder" responses to public and or media inquiry.

This definitely puts different light (no pun intended) on the "10:00 PM flare drop!"

I don't want to get to far off track, but are you aware of the "other sightings" outside of Arizona before the 13th?

MF: Well, I’m going to answer this one two different ways…first of all, prior to our sighting, on March 13, 1997, up until about 8:29 PM, MST, I would not have known or paid any attention to any “UfO reports” in my area, your area, anywhere. Truly, I would not have even given it a second take.

Now since our sighting, that’s a different story. Since I started meeting other witnesses and getting involved in this so-called investigation, I have found that this V shaped craft could have been in southern Nevada on the 12th. I have also received e-mail from folks in Iowa, that witnessed the V shaped or as they called it, “arrowhead shaped UfO” on March 12 and again on the 13th of March 1997. We also have the mystery of the MSTI-3 satellite, which became disabled (battery failure) in the late hours of March 12th or early hours of March 13, 1997. But that’s one for a later time.

MSTI3 (Sml)
FW: What more can you tell our readers about the sighting(s) on the 12th?

MF: Once the discussion on the Internet had begun, I was asked to come into a newsgroup and answer some questions and maybe possibly shed some light on the so-called “Phoenix Lights” case. At this point in time all that was really understood was the 5 - 10 PM videos of distant lights that many were claiming were the massive UFOs seen earlier throughout the state. Hardly anyone knew of the 8 o’clock events of the massive V shaped craft. Most looked at the videos and assumed that this is what the 8 o’clock witnesses were describing. Once there was a little acceptance of the earlier events, a lady who is (was) a RN and was on her way home (Iowa) after her shift at the hospital, e-mailed me describing her sighting of a “arrowhead shaped UfO” that was massive in size and very close to what I was describing in the newsgroups back in 1997. To my knowledge hers is the only one. One would probably check the archives at NUFORC to be sure. The southern Nevada sighting would be there as well.

FW: To be clear: from the first gathering of witnesses--initially the main fracas was the "10:00 PM flares"; in your view is this because the local media was airing those videos every time there was mention of the event(s)?

Flare Shot

MF: Absolutely! I’ve been told so many times that without video, viewers will not pay attention. It’s like we are not intelligent enough to listen and comprehend what’s being said. I have for years now felt insulted by this attitude taken by so many producers. I know and accept that written print is based on a 6th grade education, but telling the truth on television should not have to be distorted and created just to satisfy the viewer’s attention span. It was those 5- 10 PM videos that in the early stages of the so-called investigation that led so many away from any type of true investigation. It was as if they started at the end and were satisfied without going to the beginning to start the investigation. It was like, “why waste the time? We have all we need in these videos!”

One of the biggest complaints I had was while giving video interviews they (producers) would insert the 10 PM videos while I was telling of our sighting. So, while describing a massive V shaped craft that passed slowly in front of us, they insert the high altitude 10 PM flare footage. All because there is no good quality 8 o’clock video, they lie to the viewer, thus making the 8 o’clock witnesses look foolish as well.

FW: For our readers NUFORC shows sightings of either "orbs" and or a "triangular craft" in California, Oregon, Michigan, Texas, Nevada, Georgia, and Virginia during that time period.

MF: Yes, I was contacted by William Warwick about the Norfolk, VA. sightings; he claims that theyare identical to the V shaped craft seen in Arizona on March 13, 1997. I think he even wrote a book titled, “The Norfolk Incident.” I had forgotten about that until I saw Virginia.

FW: Additionally sightings occurred in England, Canada, and Cyprus as well. Obviously, labeling this incident, "The Phoenix Lights" was/is fallacious to be polite!

MF: You are absolutely correct, sir! I have argued this title for many, many years. I have talked to witnesses from Flagstaff, Camp Verde, Paulden, Chino Valley, Prescott, Prescott Valley, Wickenburg, Dewey-Humboldt, Cordes Junction, Black Canyon City, Cave Creek, Scottsdale, Chandler, Gilbert, Mesa, Glendale, Goodyear, Casa Grande, Gila River Indian Reservation, Tucson, Yuma, Gold Canyon, and Phoenix. I’m sure this is not all the towns/cities that had witnesses but to call what happened on March 13, 1997, “The Phoenix Lights” is ridiculous. I believe the real title to all this should be, “The Massive UFO Flyover of Arizona, March 13, 1997”, but I’m constantly being told that title is way too long and complicated. But what happened on March 13, throughout Arizona was a long and complicated trail of events, was it not? Hey, if the shoe fits….

Funny thing about those “holy grail” videos taken around 10 PM that got all this going as the “Phoenix Lights.” They are of distant lights. No one has come forward that was any closer than the Blonder/King videos. It is true that these videos are of lights NOT over Phoenix and probably NOT even over Maricopa county. But, more than likely these lights were over the North Tac range of Barry Goldwater Test Range. And, as Dr Maccabee suggested, they would have been more that likely flares ignited at or around 16,000’ in order to be seen by witnesses on mountainside homes in the Phoenix area.

97% of all witnesses are in the 8 o’clock hour. Very few witnessed the more than likely flare drop around 10PM.

FW: Where exactly were "Blonder and King" located and please explain why that is important for our readers.

Blonder Video Still

MF: They were at 40th street and Chandler Boulevard in a suburb called Awhatukee. It’s south of Phoenix and just south of South Mountain. It’s a very nice residential area of mountainside homes. Two of the five “Phoenix Lights” videos were shot from this house. There would have been a third, but the batteries in Bill Hamilton’s camera were not charged and his camera failed as the more-than-likely 10 PM flare drop began.

To me this is important to the readers because this is the closest so far that any witness or video was to the lights. And still they were probably 35-45 miles away. This is why I keep repeating that the so-called Phoenix Lights videos weren’t over Phoenix or even over Maricopa County!

There are no known witnesses south or southwest of these two videos. So the distant lights may really not come to conclusion as to what they were due to this point. This is where I put my beliefs on Dr Maccabee’s conclusion that they are more than likely flares ignited at app. 16,000’ altitude as a diversionary tactic to draw attention away from the 8 o’clock events of massive V shaped crafts.

FW: To be clear, you are saying there are "no known witnesses" of the 10:00 "flare drop" south of Awhatukee, correct?

MF: To the best of my knowledge…that is correct.

FW: We'll pause here, and will continue in part IV posthaste.