Showing posts with label Italian UFO Crash. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Italian UFO Crash. Show all posts

Thursday, August 31, 2023

The Alleged 1933 Italian UFO Crash Under Scrutiny – Fascist UFO Files

The Alleged 1933 Italian UFO Crash Under Scrutiny – Fascist UFO Files - www.theufochronicles.com

The “Fascist UFO Files” Under Scrutiny



Is It Appropriate To Consider And Term Them “Official Documents”?
A Technical Analysis by An Archivist



"...there are numerous and serious weaknesses in the arguments put forward to support the evidential value of those documents.


In consideration of the evidence that has been produced so far, we believe that an Abrahamic faith is indeed required to agree with the conclusions drawn by Pinotti and Lissoni about the contents of those documents."

[Editor's note:this is an automated translation from UFO – rivista di informazione ufologica no. 29, July 2004 using DeepL; editing by Stavros Hatzopoulos; revised by the author, Massimiliano Grandi–FW]



     The readers of UFO – Rivista di Informazione Ufologica are likely to have seen that in issue no. 27 (August 2003) Giuseppe Stilo has written the article “Fascists on Mars”, a detailed critical analysis of some aspects of the matter grown out of the so-called “fascist files,” the supposed documents dating back to the 1930s and propagated mainly by Roberto Pinotti and Alfredo Lissoni, both members of the National Ufological Center (CUN – Centro Ufologico Nazionale).

Stilo, rather than on the “documents” per se, had dwelt on the
Massimiliano Grandi
By Massimiliano Grandi
CISU
way the pages had been associated with matters such as the “flying saucers” allegedly designed or built by the Nazis, the legend of the “death ray,” and the like.

By this article, however, I would like to address the issues concerning the value of the very papers at the center of the controversy analyzing them from an archival and documental perspective: to that end in November 2003 the Italian Center for Ufological Studies, in the person of this writer, had a long discussion in Rome with Dr Paola Carucci – who in the past held the position of “Superintendent” of the Italian National Archives and was a professor of Archivistics at the Special School for Archivists and Librarians at “La Sapienza” University of Rome (in addition to being the author of numerous texts and articles in her domain of study) – on the events described in the now well-known book written by Pinotti and Lissoni

Even before the meeting with Dr Carucci, some features of the documents were already clear, as they have been sent by an unknown sender and are not easily accessible, since those in possession of the papers seem somewhat reluctant to make them available to ufology scholars who do not share their general views on the UFO phenomenon: all the above essentially nullifies their archival and historical value, since documents coming from an unknown source and, moreover, seemingly hidden from the free critical examination of the entire community of researchers and archivists lack the essential requirements of reliability and openness, indispensable if they are to be used as scientifically valid elements to support any thesis.

On top of that, some of the documentary material discussed would consist of mere reproductions of other documents: in fact, barring the first three dispatches, which Pinotti says he received respectively on Feb. 3, Feb. 19, and March 29, 1996, all the other documents – if one attentively and carefully sifts through articles sometimes unclear in explaining the sequence of the events – would be color photocopies. Now, producing and sending a photocopy by mail does not require any particular effort from a documental and archival point of view, both because it is only the original document the one that possesses a set of physical characteristics (paper type, ink type, signatures, etc.) that may be very difficult to falsify, and because a photocopy devoid of any kind of original mark of authenticity (signature, seal, stamp, etc.) affixed to it (especially when it comes from an unknown place and under mysterious circumstances) may theoretically be the result of a posteriori typesetting work mimicking the forms and content of an old document (the advent of the digital technology has greatly increased the risk that such forgeries can be produced, prompting archival communities around the world to devise appropriate countermeasures).

And indeed, in relation to this matter, in several cases Pinotti and Lissoni have published in the magazines featuring their articles only images of color photocopies, not images of originals.

Furthermore, from the behavior of the two authors you may glean that they do not consider the majority of the ufologists worthy being given even only the possibility to conduct a critical examination of the photocopies (whose value as pieces of evidence would be In any case – just to reiterate it – very limited).

An additional request – made recently by Stilo to Lissoni – to obtain a full copy of the expert report on the validity of the papers, has had no response.

What’s more, the photocopied documents are the most shocking ones: the documents from the first shipment, the alleged “originals,” contain reports of phenomena that today we would classify as “daytime discs,” “night lights,” or “encounters of the first kind,”, which would be interesting in any case, but certainly not so sensational as the discovery of “an alien airship” could be.

Now, no authority of the archival administration could consider minimally significant (and thus eventually take action to promote their recovery) documents that are photocopies of purported archival documents: archival assets – this is to be emphasized – are documents (even photocopies of other documents) that have become part of public archives (or of private archives declared to be of notable historical interest) in compliance with formal administrative procedures, not mere photocopies, which, moreover, have been obtained from unknown sources and under unclear circumstances.

The meeting between Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici (CISU) and Dr Carucci was very helpful to clarify some aspects of the whole matter. One of the points that have been discussed was the possible interest of the Italian state in the recovery of documents containing information of national security interest, since in this case the national interest would not originate from archival considerations – that is, from the original state-owned nature of the documents – but from the intrinsic importance of the information contained in the documents: in this case even simple photocopies could be considered worthy of consideration. In this respect, Dr Carucci pointed out that – aside from the fact it might be disputed that documents supposedly dating back to the Thirties of the 20th Century can still be of interest for national security – the archival administration can only be interested in claiming documents that were certainly produced by the public administration and which are acknowledged to be potentially of interest for historical research purposes. This means that only in the presence of elements giving clear evidential value (evidential value which, as we have just said, at least from the archival point of view is completely absent, since these are simple photocopies of unknown origin and mailed by an anonymous person) could the Archival Administration show some interest; if not, these documents would be regarded as just one of the numerous unverified rumors (rumors concerning a wide range of matters, almost always totally unrelated to Ufology) that have always been spread during the fascist regime in the period of the “Ventennio” and often feature aspects fit for being published in pulp magazines (“Ventennio” means “period of twenty years” and in Italian is used as a moniker to indicate the fascist period which lasted just twenty years).

Let us now consider the famous “originals” of the first shipment received by Pinotti, those arrived on Feb. 3, Feb. 19, and March 29, 1996.

Later on we shall briefly deal with the examination Pinotti had asked to conduct on the paper and ink of these originals. For the time being, we simply analyze the structure of the documents.

In each of them, there is no indication – we want to lay stress on that – no indication, that would qualify them as belonging to a public archives or as confidential records.

The structure of the letters – whatever the origin may be – in any case is that of pieces of private correspondence, because the recipients, of whom no trace can be found, are addressed in the same way as it is usually done in epistolary exchanges between private individuals.

There is a letterhead – that is true – but that means nothing, because it is not difficult to find or to reproduce letterhead paper. On discussing these arguments, Giuseppe Stilo has shown to me, for example, blank templates of letterheads dating back to administrations of the Italian Social Republic.

It is a common feature of private archives – as Dr Carucci has pointed out – to find private correspondence written on a letterhead: if someone is an official of the public administration and writes in private – i.e. for personal reasons – to a third party or even to another official, he or she may use a letterhead, but this per se is not enough to give the document a public nature.

In the scenario described above we would be dealing with writings that do not possess any formal structure qualifying them as documents belonging to an archives: that seems to be just the case of the documents presented by Pinotti, which have no protocol number, no stamps, no internal partition, and no indications, in relation to the sender and the recipient, that would evidence any kind of public function which has been supported through their creation and use. On these pieces of paper, anonymous remarks are made about phenomena that show a vague similarity to the modern UFO sightings: statements such as “The Air Force distributed a questionary to all pilots operating in the area. Deny any version. The fact is to be attributed exclusively to an optical phenomenon. Il Duce follows personally the incident” do not mean anything from any point of view and more in particular do not qualify these letters as public documents.

It should be stressed that this issue is not just one of formal regularity or legal definitions, but a question at the very heart of archival science: according to Paoli, the archival document is “a written record of a fact which has legal nature, drafted in compliance with specific standards, which are intended to procure trustworthiness and give it evidential value,” [1] and – even if this definition has been debated, further analyzed and broadened over time by archival scholars – in any case it is evident that a piece of paper reporting extraordinary news will never be considered an archival document just because the events reported would imply the involvement of statesmen and public administrations.

The discussion concerning the nature of these documents – that is merely private and by no means public – should also be extended, in Carucci’s opinion, to the wire of the Milan Telegraph Office, which is the only one, among the original pieces of paper, to show an elaborate graphical appearance, complete with pre-printed fields to contain specific kinds of information and with the heading on the left-hand side at the bottom “Mittente – Agenzia Stefani – Milano,” (In English “Sender – Stefani Agency – Milan”)” but on which, if one attentively analyzes the various parts of the document, one can see that the name of the addressee has been erased by a scrawl, as even Pinotti and Lissoni had pointed out. This means that the telegram could just be a communication sent to a private individual, and therefore that its status may be that of a document belonging to an archives of a public body is only a hypothesis.

The content of the wire is anything but specific: “Absolute secrecy on unqualified air-ship available at confidential report 23/47 stop letter follows.”

This could also be the sheer reporting of a normal airship whose activity might have had some military implications (assuming the wire has not been forged, of course) in the context of ordinary surveillance services.

Aside from the vague and sometimes trivial nature of the information reported in these documents, we point out the inherent contradictions in the claims made about the absolute secrecy of this information, which would nevertheless have circulated (according to Pinotti and Lissoni) on Senate documents; documents of the Chamber of Deputies; postcards from the Senate of the Kingdom; wires from the Telegraph Office of Milan. Quite a widespread circulation for information that should have been covered by total secrecy!

It should be added that Pinotti claims that the alleged RS/33 cabinet directly depended from the Duce (see UFO: la visita extraterrestre, No. 11, September 1999, p. 14-15), as it would have been only pro forma an agency connected with the Regia Accademia d’Italia (Royal Academy of Italy), while in fact it would have acted independently from any other institutional body (“except for the person of Benito Mussolini”).

Such an assertion, not in line according to Professor Carucci with the organization of the fascist regime – an authoritarian but complex government, organically structured in its articulations and in its relations with all the civil and military state institutions – should be supported by a thorough historical-institutional research that would prove with certainty its existence.

Moreover, such a level of confidentiality seems to be at odds with the documents of the first three dispatches (the “original” ones), which would show (if one considers them as documents really produced by the offices, mentioned in the respective letterheads, to fulfil their institutional activities) a circulation of them not in compliance with the requirements of the highest level of secrecy, since even wires from the Milan Telegraph Office would have been used.

The absence of secrecy appears then to be confirmed by the fact that documents related to sightings of mysterious aircrafts around the mid-1930s in the airspace of Italy – sightings mentioned by Lissoni in UFO Notiziario No. 12 of May 2000 (p. 41-44) – were easily found by the writer at the State Archives of Milan (Archivio di Stato di Milano) in the fonds of the Prefecture, Cabinet, Series I, category 14 (Aviation), folder 400 “reporting of suspicious airplanes.” 1931; 1933, 1934-1935 and folder 401 “landings of foreign aircraft,” 1928-1936 and “reports of suspicious airplanes.” 1936-1937 (despite the fact that Lissoni had not provided the necessary information for the location of the files with the documents: but it was extremely easy to figure out where these were located): where is this alleged secrecy, especially when we consider that in the case in point this group would have been operating in total concealment, so much so that they would have left no trace – a commonplace for ufologists – of themselves in the archives?

Then there is the envelope on which it would be possible to read “Confidential – in the hands of His Excellency Galeazzo Ciano,” which arrived at Pinotti on February 3, 1996 along with the “original” documents, and which would also be “original”: however, this envelope too does not possess any characteristics that would allow us to determine whether it belongs to a public or a private archive. The presence of the heading “Senate of the Reign” on the back of the envelope does not mean anything from this point of view – given the circumstance that a very large number of empty envelopes of that type, and dating back to that time, still exists in Italy -, just as the fact that there would be traces of broken seals on the envelope and the “sinusoidal stroke of a fountain pen” affixed “to guarantee the closure” (of the envelope), which would also appear twice more on the envelope, are of no importance at all: all these particulars have no relevance whatsoever in relation to the capacity of giving evidential value to the documents, as all of them can be reproduced very easily.

Finally, Dr Carucci – with reference to the statement made by Lissoni about the significance of the “movement of prefects,” reported in an article of the Corriere della Sera of June 15, 1933 (see UFO Notiziario, No. 10, March 2000, p. 43) and believed by Lissoni to be a possible indication of the excitement that followed the UFO landing – notes that the movements of prefects, like the one that took place in June 1933, were part of the routine of the Ministry of the Interior both in the liberal era and during the Fascist regime: this regular alternation was due to the fact that the government did not consider it advisable for the same prefect to remain in the same place for too long.

We finally come to the question of the technical expertise on the papers which Pinotti has boasted about. Firstly, it is necessary to remark that an expert opinion, in any case, cannot be used to affirm that the papers are “authentic”, as written too emphatically (by using at same time print, bold, italics and exclamation point) on page 23 of the CUN, UFO Notiziario No. 11, April 2000, or that they are part of an archives, but theoretically one can only establish whether they are “old” papers or not. Whether the degree of accuracy of calculating the age of the documents can go so far as to state that they are pre-World War II is difficult to say, but the outcome of an interview with the Maero-Cimini company, which also acts as the publishing office for the National College of Graphic Experts’ bulletin, has made the writer doubt that such a degree of accuracy is feasible.

And here we address another point: the National College of Graphic Experts has several branches in Italy, and the branch I contacted is the main one and is located in Turin [2]. Since Roberto Pinotti had the expertise carried out on documents that are claimed to be “original”, this College seemed a suitable body to have some more information on the topic.

The staff of the Maero-Cimini firm were extremely open to collaboration, within the limits of their expertise. They asked to be sent by fax a photocopy of the page on which notice was given of the results of the technical expertise commissioned by Pinotti, namely – as we have already said – of page 23 of UFO Notiziario No. 11 of April 2000.

What has been reported in this issue of UFO Notiziario, however, are only the conclusions of the technical report, and from that it is not clear which technologies the expert who carried out the analyses – Antonio Garavaglia, consultant for the Court of Como – used (reputedly in 1999). In the aforementioned conclusions the statements that have been made are actually – according to the graphic experts I consulted – rather generic.

To understand well the examinations that have been performed one would need to know in detail the procedures and tests that have been carried out, but that is where the openness of the information concerning the actions which have been conducted becomes relevant: according to the Maero-Cimini practice, since the examination was not carried out within a courtroom, all the related documentation is shown or not at the discretion of the person who had it performed. We know of the existence of a handout specifying in detail the examinations conducted by Antonio Garavaglia, and in spite of the silence after our former requests, we now ask again in this article that the documentation concerning the details of the examinations which have been carried out may be made available as soon as possible to the whole community of the UFO scholars: without a totally open and transparent circulation of information and without a level of trust in those who will review the work that has been done, any research cannot be called a historical or scientific work, but only an exercise for initiates!

In consideration that the expert Garavaglia was the guest speaker at one of the last congresses organized by the National Ufological Center in San Marino and then in Milan, and that in Spring 2000, during a press conference, the documents describing how the examinations were conducted were handed out to the members of the media who were present, we are confident that Roberto Pinotti may be willing to give a copy of the entire documentation on the experiments that have been performed, in order to have their appropriateness verified and to allow the possible preparation of another expert report.

We still hope that Pinotti may understand how the fact that it has been very difficult so far for researchers unwelcome to him to view the details of the expert report jeopardizes the presumption of honesty about his theories and may realize that a cross-examination, conducted by qualified professionals on behalf of other parties, would give a better understanding of the nature of those papers.

Does he not agree, then again, on that such actions would be beneficial for the UFO research?

It is theoretically possible to have tests performed to understand – for example – whether old ink and old paper were used to draft a new document or whether instead the document was actually created at a much earlier date (although there is not always a clear agreement among all the experts of this domain as to the highest degree of precision achievable by using techniques aimed at establishing the date of a document), but from what we have been able to see so far, it is not possible to understand – we lay stress on that – what procedures the expert Garavaglia has used to draw his conclusions.

To sum up:

1) The documents come from anonymous sources;

2) the documents are either “originals” without any formal element that may qualify them as belonging to the archives of a public body or they are photocopies of no archival value;

3) the documents, for the time being, do not seem to be available to those who – like us – want to have them examined by additional experts;

4) the “original” documents – which are far less sensational (indeed, sometimes they are really trivial) than the photocopies when we consider the contents of the news reported in them – would be very old according to a graphical expertise; however, only the final conclusions of the expertise are available and we do not know in detail the tests and examinations that have been conducted;

5) even if the documents would have been “secretive,” they seem to have been disseminated in many ways notwithstanding their alleged confidentiality;

6) by Lissoni’s own admission, no trace can be found in the archives to confirm the news reported in the documents, except for the files found in the State Archives of Milan: as we have said above, the contents of those documents have completely been misunderstood by Lissoni.

In conclusion, we would like to reiterate clearly that – despite the criticisms – the intent of those who want to delve into such a matter cannot be, to try to give evidence of the fact that those papers are a forgery. This would be illogical and no fabrication has been demonstrated for the time being. We have instead pointed out that there are numerous and serious weaknesses in the arguments put forward to support the evidential value of those documents.

In consideration of the evidence that has been produced so far, we believe that an Abrahamic faith is indeed required to agree with the conclusions drawn by Pinotti and Lissoni about the contents of those documents.

NOTES AND REFERENCES
[1] Paoli, C., Diplomatica, new updated edition by G. C. Bascapè, Sansoni, Florence, 1942 (anastatic reprint 1969), p. 18.
[2] Web site www.conpeg.it. It is also noteworthy the page http://www.maero.it/giornale/conpeg_corrente.rtf, where some useful techniques – of course not all of the existing techniques – for recognizing the handwriting and establishing the authenticity of some specific features of a document are presented, and a detailed list of the College’s Italian branches is available.

Massimiliano Grandi is an archivist graduated at the Special School for Archivists and Librarians, “La Sapienza” University, Rome.

*Special thsnks to Edoardo Russo & CISU

Friday, August 18, 2023

More on Whistleblower Grusch and UFO Crashes

Whislteblower, David Grusch gving opening statement at the Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena: Implications on National Security, Public Safety, and Government Transparency congressional hearing

"... we have been bombarded by reports from David Grusch about what he heard from sources he refuses to identify, and that the US Government has, in its possession both craft and bodies from an alien source ... Yet the main street media is acting as if this is something new."

     On June 25, there was another video put up on YouTube about David Grush and his claims of captured or retrieved alien craft, and the bodies of the alien pilots. It is a long interview and you can watch it here. Here’s one of the things I found interesting. They made it clear that Grush had not been before a senate committee and he apparently had not talked to any of the senators. He did meet with senators’ staffs and answered their questions. It also seems that he met with, and was questioned by members of the House. I don’t know how long that session, or those sessions, lasted. I will not speculate about his being under oath or if those sessions were somewhat less formal.
Kevin Randle - www.theufochronicles.com
By Kevin Randle
A Different Perspective
6-27-23

I will also note that in the above commentary, there was discussion of the body language analyses that have been done. I did watch one and it seemed the conclusion was a more or less, “I don’t know.” There were no significant indications of lying, but there were hints that he might not have been comfortable with what he was saying. Well, if he’s spilling secrets, I can imagine that some of the questions might have made him nervous.

Here's the thing about this that I simply do not understand. He is not the first person with interesting credentials to make these claims. I too, have talked with military officers who have some knowledge of UFOs, crash retrievals, and the recovery of the alien flight crews.

Brigadier Arthur Exon told me about the material from the Roswell crash being taken to Wright Field, later Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. He said that he talked with those involved in the analysis of the material. He said, “We heard the material was coming to Wright Field.”
Brigadier General Arthur Exon

I asked about bodies and General Exon said, “There was another location… where they did say there were bodies… they were all found outside the craft but were in fairly good condition.”

And he said that one of the bodies had been taken to Lowry Army Air Field near Denver because the Army had a mortuary service there. They would know the best way to preserve what might be a unique biological sample. Exon said all this on audio tape.

I asked him, specifically and he told me, “Roswell was the recovery of a craft from space.” I have a letter from him in which he acknowledges that all the quotes in the book, UFO Crash at Roswell were accurate and this is one of those quotes.

The point is that here is an Air Force general acknowledging that the military had recovered a craft not built on Earth and piloted by beings who were not human. Yet this information was of no interest to the main stream media and our attempts to share that information with the Air Force during their investigation was not acknowledged.

Chester Lytle had a distinguished career. He was involved in creating the trigger for the first atomic bombs, helped develop hydrofoil technology and was a colleague of William Blanchard who was the commanding officer in Roswell in July 1947. Don Schmitt and I interviewed Lytle several times and he shared with us several UFO stories in which he was one of the primary witnesses. The most important thing he said, however, he told to Robert Hastings, who reported it in his book UFOs and Nukes.

According to Hastings, Lytle told him as he, Lytle, was making an emergency trip to Chicago on an Air Force transport, Blanchard, traveling with him, told him a little more about the strange craft that had been found in Roswell in 1947. Blanchard, who was the Vice Chief of Staff of the Air Force in the 1960s, told Lytle that a spacecraft had crashed near his base and that there had been four bodies recovered.

Hastings wrote, “Startled by Lytle’s unexpected admission, I [Hastings] asked, ‘Blanchard actually told you that the Roswell object was an alien spacecraft?’ Lytle replied emphatically, ‘Oh, absolutely!’”

Patrick Saunders, who was the adjutant at the Roswell Army Air Field in 1947, bought copies of both UFO Crash at Roswell and The Truth about the UFO Crash at Roswell. He wrote on the flyleaf of one of those books, “Here’s the truth and I still haven’t told anybody anything!” He signed with “Pat.”

On that page, with a heading of “Damage Control, was a description of some of the activities at the RAAF. It said:

Files were altered. So were personal records, along with assignments and various codings and code words… After the impact site was cleaned, the soldiers were debriefed, and the bodies and the craft removed, silence fell. It would not be broken for almost forty-five years.
heading of “Damage Control, was a description of some of the activities at the RAAF
Patrick Saunders statement about the accuracy
of the information included in the book

And not to drag this out much longer, Edwin Easley, who was the Provost Marshal in Roswell, told me that he had been sworn to secrecy, that Mack Brazel (the man who reported the wreckage to the base) had been held in the base guest house for a number of days, confirming that end of the story, and mentioned “the creatures,” to family members just prior to his death in the 1990s.

The real point here is that in the last few weeks we have been bombarded by reports from David Grusch about what he heard from sources he refuses to identify, and that the US Government has, in its possession both craft and bodies from an alien source. But this is exactly what Don and I reported in the early 1990s complete with the names of sources and documentation confirming the credentials of those sources. Yet the main street media is acting as if this is something new.

I might add here, that I served as both an Army and an Air Force intelligence officer. I served in Iraq and was decorated with the Bronze Star Medal and the Combat Action Badge. In other words, I have some of the same credentials as does Grusch, and when Don and I published our books on Roswell, the response from the media was underwhelming.

My research, and Don’s research didn’t end there. I have since published Roswell in the 21st Century and Understanding Roswell, which I believe bring the whole of that case into sharper focus. And before someone mentions the nonsensical Mogul explanation for the debris recovered, I might suggest you consult both the books which demonstrate that Mogul is not a viable answer.

If you are starved for names, dates, sources and documentation, these books provide it and as my old nemesis used to say, “It only takes one case to prove that UFOs are extraterrestrial.” Roswell is that case and the evidence overlooked for decades is out there for those interested in reading about it.

Friday, August 11, 2023

Whistleblower, David Grusch and the 1933 Italian UFO Crash

Whistleblower, David Grusch and the 1933 Italian UFO Crash

"The real trouble comes from the reference to the 1933 crash in Italy. I had not heard about this and I have spent decades researching claims of UFO crashes. The Italian story comes from documents, received anonymously in the mail by Italian researchers. This smacks of the tales of MJ-12, documents that were received anonymously in the mail by American researchers. Those documents are considered to hoaxes by the majority of UFO researchers today."

     One of the problems we face after David Grusch began his whistle blowing campaign is that he provided almost no information about his sources, about the UFO crash retrievals he alleged were real and provided no documents to support his claims. All that was coming but given the rules, regulations and laws, he was unable to produce any of the required information that would allow us to vet anything he said and validate his tale.

However, we can deduce some of this by comments he has made, especially during the interview that was broadcast on one of the fledgling all-news cable channels.
Kevin Randle - www.theufochronicles.com
By Kevin Randle
A Different Perspective
6-21-23

I’m going to ignore his comment about “The Program,” which might or might not be the real name of a clandestine program because there just isn’t enough information about it to make any analysis meaningful. I will say, however, that we know about Project Moon Dust that had a UFO component, and that after the name was compromised in the mid-1980s, the name was changed and we were told that even the name was classified. Not that the project had been cancelled, only that the name had been changed and was still gathering UFO related material under umbrella of national security.

Grusch did name two UFO crashes. He mentioned both a crash in Italy in 1933 and, of course, Roswell. There was no danger in mentioning Roswell because of the controversy wrapped around the story. While the government explanation was Project Mogul, the available documentation eliminates that answer. I have written about that explanation of Roswell for, literally, decades, and believe there is no viable, terrestrial explanation for what was recovered. For those who wish to pursue my reasons for that, I suggest typing Mogul into the search engine here, or read either Roswell in the 21st Century or Understanding Roswell.

The real trouble comes from the reference to the 1933 crash in Italy. I had not heard about this and I have spent decades researching claims of UFO crashes. The Italian story comes from documents, received anonymously in the mail by Italian researchers. This smacks of the tales of MJ-12, documents that were received anonymously in the mail by American researchers. Those documents are considered to hoaxes by the majority of UFO researchers today.

Briefly, Grusch said that the UFO was retrieved in northern Italy in 1933, and was recovered by Mussolini’s fascist government. The Pope learned about it and told the US government. The material was recovered by the US after the end of the Second World War.

The story of the 1933 crash, as told by Roberto Pinotti, an Italian journalist and UFO researcher, was that the object fell in Magenta, Lambardy, Italy, on April 11, 1933. The object was described as “saucer-like” and the event resulted in an investigation by an Italian intelligence unit called RS/33 Cabinet. The UFO was stored in the hangars of SIAI Marchetti in Vergiate. Mussolini believed the craft was a secret weapon of either the Nazis or the Allies.

Pope Pius XII learned of the craft and may have been told about it by Mussolini himself. When Mussolini signed a treaty with Hitler, the Pope worried about the craft and told the US about the object. It was after the war that the craft made its way to the United States.

Lue Elizondo, who was involved in UFO investigations, said that he had seen documents from Mussolini’s office that he found, “compelling.” He seemed to suggest that the craft might not have been alien but was some sort of advanced craft using jet engines that had been developed by the Nazis. The timing, however, doesn’t seem to fit. April 1933 is too early for the development of the jet engines and the design might have been something created by the Horten brothers attempts to build a “tailless” aircraft.

There were tales of bodies that made their way, and I say allegedly here, to Wright Field. They were badly mangled, looking as if they had been in a car wreck, but whose heads were fairly intact. They were seven feet tall, had long blonde hair, clear blue eyes, small noses, small mouths, thin lips and no signs facial hair. The conclusion, based on the examination of those bodies was that they were not human.

One of the gates to Wright-Patterson AFB. Photo by Kevin Randle
One of the gates to Wright-Patterson AFB. Photo by Kevin Randle

Now here is a connection that will raise a few eyebrows. There is an account from another source to corroborate some of these details. William Brophy, said that his father, who was a lieutenant colonel, had seen the bodies at some point and told him, the son, about them. Yes, this is the same Lieutenant Colonel Brophy who supposedly flew over, or landed near, or was somehow a witness to the 1945 UFO crash described by Jacques Vallee in this book about the San Antonio (Trinity) crash. The younger Brophy’s entry into this case taints it, just as it has the San Antonio crash.

At any rate, this is the tale of the 1933 crash, not cluttered up with any sort of corroboration except for those documents that have been floating around for decades. The trouble there, according to an Italian researcher, Giuseppe Stilo, writing in UFO Rivista di Informazione Ufoligica, those documents are faked. The documents arrived anonymously and were reported to have originated in “archival sources that no one has been able to identify and verify.”

Another problem is that those holding what has been termed “The Fascist Files,” is that disinterested third parties, in this case the CISU (Centro Italiano Studi Ufogici, an Italian research group) requested an opportunity to examine the documents but that has not happened in more than twenty years.

Also disturbing, is the lack of citation of the sources. We have dealt here, on this blog, with anonymous sources in various public arenas and more often than not, when the original source is identified the information attributed to that source has been distorted, or worse, the source denied the information.

A second article, “Fascist files” Under Scrutiny, by Massimiliano Grandi, published in UFO Rivista di Informazione Ufoligica (number 29) provided more information on these documents. Published with the article are photos of the documents which demonstrates there are documents, but that doesn’t mean they are authentic because the originals have not been subjected to independent forensic examination. This is the same problem we had with the MJ-12 documents. The originals were not available for disinterested third party examination.

Grandi provides additional arguments about the authenticity of the documents and the failure to corroborate any of the sources or other information. He concludes, however:

…we would like to firmly reiterate that despite the critical tones – the intent of those who want to study such an affair cannot be to try to prove the ‘falsity’ of those papers. This would be illogical. This falsity is not proven now, but it was intended to point out that there are numerous serious weaknesses in the reasons made to support the importance of the documents.

On the basis of the evidence so far produced, we believe that an Abrahamic faith is indeed required to condition the conclusions drawn by Pinotti and Lissoni about the contents of these documents.

Or, in other words, they found nothing to indicate that the documents were authentic and without additional information, the case for the 1933 crash and retrieval is not proven. It is up to the supporters to provide that proof and for more than twenty years they have failed to do so.

If this revelation about the 1933 Italian UFO crash is accurate, then it casts a shadow over the whistle blower who suggested that he learned it from his inside sources. It means that he accepted the original publication of the material without critical thought or even making a basic Internet search because he assumed that the information was accurate. It would seem that an insider, with access to what must be highly classified information, would have been aware of the controversy surrounding this case. He wouldn’t have mentioned it as one of two that he believed to be authentic.

Since he didn’t mention the names of any of his sources, we are unable to vet them and their reliability. We now enter an area of speculation. I have run into information that Grusch had spent time at the Skinwalker Ranch. Jerry Clark had mentioned to me that linking Grusch to Skinwalker as a way of questioning his credibility was unfair. Many have traveled to Skinwalker. But my point wasn’t about the paranormal research going on there, but who conducted the research and who had visited there. That put Grusch in touch with some formerly high-ranking government and military officials, not to mention Bigelow Aerospace. Remember, Grusch had talked about some of the evidence of the crashes and the recovery of material from those crashes had been provided to corporate America. One of those specifically named by sources other than Grusch was Bigelow Aerospace.

Given that connection, then it follows that we can deduce some of the names of those involved, and we can deduce some of the other crashes that might have been mentioned. Given where some of the information has recently surfaced that included the names of Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal, I believe that one of those crashes is the 1945 claim of the recovery of a craft near San Antonio, New Mexico. The story was told by two men, who had been boys in 1945, who saw the craft crash, saw the wrecked craft on the ground, the alien creatures that flew it, and the Army recovery operation.

Although the story has been accepted by some very smart people, some of them who have been around the UFO field for decades, Douglas Dean Johnson, in a comprehensive investigation that does cite sources and does provide documentation, has thoroughly debunked the tale. The shifting nature of the important features of the story suggest it is untrue. Tom Carey recorded an interview with Reme Baca, one of those witnesses, before the story received any wide spread treatment and the recording is of an event that doesn’t match much of the later story. You can read Johnson’s research and listen to Carey’s interview and analysis by other, disinterested third parties here:

Crash Story File: The Reme Baca Smoking-Gun Interview

Crash Story: The Trinity UFO Crash Hoax

www.davidhalperin.net

Given the direction of all this, I wonder if the Del Rio UFO crash in northern Mexico, just across the border from Texas, isn’t on the list. This tale appears in the MJ-12 Eisenhower Briefing Document as one of the authentic crashes, though they have moved it from Del Rio to the south, in the area of El Indio/Guerrero. There are those who believe the story because a retired Air Force colonel was the one who told it and he signed an affidavit attesting to the authenticity of his information. However, it turned out the witness, Robert Willingham, was not an Air Force colonel and his story had more changes than that of Reme Baca. You can read about how it unraveled here and that will also provide links to other Willingham and MJ-12 analysis:

Stan Gordon - www.theufochronicles.com
Researcher, author Stan Gordon

I would guess that another of the crashes that Grusch might promote is the Kecksburg, Pennsylvania, event of December 9, 1965. Stan Gordon has spent decades in research of this case and is convinced that it was an alien spacecraft that crashed. Leslie Kean, along with Gordon attempted to recover records of the crash from NASA. Gordon has found many people who saw part of the final flight of what he thinks of as alien spacecraft. I too, thought that this was one of the best UFO crash stories, and Gordon has produced some compelling evidence. However, in the world today, the answer for that event might be a meteor. A bolide, which is a very bright meteor, fell about that time, with remnants found in southern Canada.

I wonder if Shag Harbour might not be on the list. This case had many witnesses who saw something fall into Shag Harbour in 1967. There was both a law enforcement response as well as a military one. The object was not recovered, and the evidence seems to suggest that it eventually managed to leave the harbour for deeper waters. Not so much of a crash as an emergency landing. There are many witnesses, as I noted, and there are many official documents about it. Chris Styles and Don Ledger are responsible for finding the documentation and the other information that suggests that this was an anomalous event.

These are some of the obvious tales of UFO crashes that had received mention in various books, magazine articles and TV documentaries. These are the prominent ones that many accept as authentic crashes. There are some lesser known crashes that might make the list such as the one over Las Vegas in April, 1962.

There was a report of a “brilliant red explosion” over Las Vegas that was witnessed by dozens, if not hundreds. Couple this to events in Utah of an oval-shaped craft landing and then taking off, and there is a hint of a “forced landing,” if not an actual crash. Sheriff’s deputies told me of a search for the downed craft that was never located. At this point, my investigation suggests that the Las Vega end of it was a bolide that exploded in the upper atmosphere.

I suppose I could go on with this speculation, but without Grusch telling us what specific events he had encountered, what he had heard from those highly-placed sources, and what is on those documents that he has seen but hasn’t produced, all we can do is speculate.

What I do know at this point is that Grusch’s mention of the Italian crash calls part of his story and one or more of his sources into question. Insiders would know the truth about this case, if they had heard about it. That casts something of a shadow over his whistle blowing.

However, those of us who have been around the UFO field long enough have been fooled by sources that seem to have inside information, only to learn that their sources were no better than ours. The UFO field is littered with the tall tales that, originally looked good but have fallen when better research was presented. Four of the most recent examples are the MJ-12 documents, the Alien Autopsy, the Project Mogul explanation for Roswell, and what I have called the Roswell Slides. The truth about all these has been published and you can read about it on this blog by typing in the keywords, or read about in my latest books about Roswell mentioned earlier.

At this point, I’m hopeful that Grusch will be able to provide the information we need to vet his tales, but as we said in the military, “Hope is not an option.” All I can really say is there are a few red flags but these simply are not enough to reject the information that Grusch has provided. As Jerry Clark said to me, we do need to wait to see how this plays out and where the truth finally is found.