By A. J. Gevaerd
Brazilian UFO Magazine
5-16-08See Part I
In an unprecedented exclusive interview to A. J. Gevaerd, editor of the Brazilian UFO Magazine, one the highest ranking and most distinguished officials of the Brazilian Air Force, Brigadier José Carlos Pereira, recognized that "it is time to end the UFO secrecy". UFO – How does the Air Force treat UFO cases involving a civil crew such as in Case Vasp? (On February 8th 1982 a Boeing 727 was followed by a UFO for three hours)
Pereira – Civil crew members are normally in contact with controlling bodies linked to the Air Force. In the past, anything regarding civil aircraft was under the Department of Civil Aviation (DAC). Nowadays, this is subject to the Brazilian Agency for Civil Aviation (ANAC). Therefore the Air Force has nearly no contact with civil pilots unless through air traffic control matters.
UFO – How would it be if we had a UFO sighting involving a TAM pilot, for example?
Pereira – This would be taken to the Air Force. This is part of the assignments of the Air Defense Command. The fact is reported to an air traffic controller and the information gets into the system.
UFO – How would this information be treated?
Pereira – A civil aircraft is always controlled by a body, by a controlling center, and all of these in Brazil are of military nature. When a pilot says “there's something going on here”, the controlling center will immediately report to the military operations center in that area, in case it is a serious occurrence. They will take some action regarding that fact and report to the Air Defense Command (CODA), which is the superior body and the only one to comprehend the whole country. After the recent Brazilian aviation crisis I finally could convince people of the necessity of having some kind of civil CODA and it was eventually created in Rio de Janeiro. The CODA we have in Brasilia is of military nature. There must be another one, a civil one, with the same assignments so that we know why an aircraft is delayed, for example. There were occurrences of many serious problems and a new body was created, the Center for Air Navigation Management (CGNA), which is now adjusted to civil traffic issues, such as delayed flights, bad weather conditions, etc.
UFO – On January 19th 2002 you gave an interview at Circuito Night and Day, a TV show hosted by congressman Celso Russomanno. During the interview you showed a book of flight occurrences and said in that year alone more than 90 entries were registered there as UFO occurrences. However, you did not allow him to open the book at the show saying that was confidential. What is really contained there?
Pereira – Many things are there including official reports that could be filled in by anyone regarding the so-called “hotel traffic” (the way Brazilian military classify UFOs). Some of these reports may even come from mad people who allege to have seen something. But when something that cannot be explained is found in that book, it is transferred to another one called Book of Occurrences, LRO. All of these cases are kept there in those books. One day researchers will be allowed to see them. And there are also reports from pilots, air traffic controllers, etc. Everything we cannot explain, everything that is held as secret, goes to those books.
UFO – Why are these things kept secret? How can a researcher examine those books when they are secret? We would like to see them...
Pereira – That's why I think they should be disclosed. I have the same opinion, Gevaerd. I believe we have one new book every year. At the end of each year we get what is written there and transfer to a file. Nowadays we don't have a book [of cases] anymore because everything is already digital.
UFO – You must have seen many of these books. What was your greatest surprise among cases reported by civil and military pilots?
Pereira – The most impressive reports are those from pilots. These are the most consistent ones because pilots are driving an aircraft which is very different from driving a car. But sometimes a pilot recognizes his mistake and say “I really saw something on the left but that was only solar refraction”. But other times they were looking to the other side where there is no refraction, then we have something strange. Sightings reported by pilots are more consistent than those from lay people looking to the sky from the ground.
UFO – Even civil Ufology does not know how to deal with some particular reports...
Pereira – That's why I asked for a questionnaire to be included in that form [for the registration of hotel traffic cases] so that we can know a little about the person's profile, such as their knowledge on meteorology.
UFO – Have you worked in the preparation of that questionnaire?
Pereira – Yes. We had an old one and I updated it by including those additional questions. Because it's a different thing when we can analyze a case with more information about it. I don't underestimate an ordinary person, but we have a different approach to a report from an engineer, for example. That questionnaire is still valid and useful.
UFO – How many of these questionnaires do you think were filled?
Pereira – I don't know, because I had no more information on that after I left the Air Force. However, I believe they are 10 per month in the whole country [Brazil]. These data are held at the Brazilian Air Defense Command (Comdabra).
UFO – Are these the ones contained in the folders Brigadier Azambuja said to be there since 1954 (in our meeting on 20th May 2005)?
Pereira – Yes, these are the ones.
UFO – Which year registers the higher number of hotel traffic entries? Do you have any special comment on a particular year?
Pereira – I don't remember when we had more occurrences. But the most interesting year was 1986, when we had that case in Sao Jose dos Campos (SP), on May 19th. That night was really amazing.
UFO – Do you believe minister Dilma Rousseff would be informed in case we had a military or civil chase for UFOs in the country? Would the subject be taken to her?
Pereira – The minister of defense will know about it for sure, since this is part of his assignments. It's automatic, his phone will ring. But I don't know if he would inform minister Rousseff. Depending on the case, the minister has the obligation to inform the president. This is how it works. When I was a commander at Comdabra, I had the personal number of the president, but I was not allowed to call him for any simple thing.
UFO – What is the chain of contact in these cases?
Pereira – In case something serious happened I had to call the commander of air operations who then would call the Air Force commander. He would contact the minister of defense who, in turn, would report to the president of the Republic. But I had authority to skip any of these steps. If I couldn't contact my commander, for example, I could go on to the next post and from this to the next one until I reach the president. If the president couldn't answer, then I should take responsibility. This is all legal. Of course we need to assess the situation, I'd never go that far if not for the most serious problem. When I was a commander at Comdabra [1999 to 2001] all cases involving military and UFOs spotted by radars would came to my knowledge. After I left, I still had access to nearly all information I desired on this subject.
UFO – When you were a commander, how often did you receive reports on the cases?
Pereira – That was only once a month. A controller would say something like “I'm following this object for 10 minutes in the radar”, or “we have another hotel traffic in Amazonas or Santa Catarina”. However, false echoes or false targets are very common in radars. A false target appears very briefly and it is easy to know it because it disappears soon. But a different thing is when we have a regular trajectory. These occurred once a month and had very short duration.
UFO – Were there any confirmation from civil pilots reporting the case?
Pereira – Yes. Civil pilots always speak. The first thing they do when they see something strange is calling the controllers because they have a huge responsibility. Civil pilots are not afraid to speak because they don't want to lose their jobs for not reporting unusual facts.
UFO – But they don't seem to like to talk with the press. We had much difficulty to get their confidence.
Pereira – They don't talk to the press because their jobs are at stake, but there's another issue. Some airlines have problems with their aircraft and don't want the press to know it. This is a crime. I've seen planes landing in great difficulties without any assistance waiting for passengers because the problem was not reported. All because the company didn't want a bad image on TV. If the pilot had reported to the controllers, he could be fired. This is not right.
UFO – We have recently received a report from a Gol pilot who was flying from Fortaleza to Belem and saw a huge object crossing the way of his Boeing. He sent us the pictures and said he was very precisely assisted when he contacted Cindacta. Do these information he reported to the flight controller end at Comdabra too?
Pereira – Yes. A fact like this reported by a Gol pilot must have generated an official report which is certainly kept somewhere in Comdabra.
UFO – When something like this happens, who fills in the form reporting the hotel traffic?
Pereira – It could be the pilot or the traffic controller. The pilot can land and fill it in. He can get the form in any Air Force base or any traffic controlling office throughout the country. Pilots know where to get the form and where to deliver it completed which is in any Air Force base.
UFO – Then what happens to the completed form?
Pereira – There's always an investigation. In this case, for example, the pilot saw something and registered that. He must report the direction, altitude, and speed of the object. We need also details such as the position of the Sun compared to the aircraft's that time. The brightness of the object is also important, as well as the kind of clouds that time. All these information are precious. Then the controllers will check if some other aircraft has crossed the way which could explain the occurrence. A research will follow and if they discover that no other aircraft was there and the weather was clear, then we have a different situation. And all these things are easy to check because everything is in the report. We go on killing all possibilities until we understand that there is no explanation for the fact.
UFO – And what happens next?
Pereira – The report goes to the files. There's nothing to do with it. When we find an explanation the report is deleted. Someone from the Air Defense calls back the pilot saying they found out what happened. Then, when no explanation is found, other procedures are taken. It's important to note that those books of occurrences contain cases that couldn't be explained even after analyzed by experts especially assigned to this task.
UFO – So we finally know that what is filled in Comdabra was already analyzed and could not be explained. Do you have any idea of the number of entries in those books and folders every year?
Pereira – I haven't followed what happened there over the last three years, but we had one to three cases each month. I want to mention an important thing. I may be guessing, but I believe that 90% of sightings are never reported. Because they are filled only where there is an airport or an Air Force base by people who know whom to report to. So I don't know the percentage of sightings that ends in reports, but I think they must be less than a half percent.
UFO – If we have only half percent of cases reported, than the real number must surpass 200 every month! And we know that not all pilots take the form to fill it in and deliver.
Pereira – Yes. Pilots don't want to show up. And other civilians don't even know that these forms exist and are available throughout the country. So the number of reports is insignificant. Almost nothing comes to the military knowledge.
UFO – Are there any superior orders to cover up the information contained in those half percent of reports?
Pereira – No. There's no order for this kind of cover-up. What we do have is a level classification. Such things must be kept confidential, but there is no rule establishing this.
UFO – Have you ever heard of the Area 51 in the Nevada desert?
Pereira – Yes. The area is a real thing and we conducted some exercises there. Not in the Area 51 itself, but over the Nevada desert where many military facilities are located. The USAF performs exercises all over that place. It has international cooperation and invites military from many countries for training sessions there. We took part in a training program there and heard of the Area 51, but no one is allowed to enter there. The Brazilian Air Force (FAB) has already sent two teams to exercise there and I was leading one of these operations. One interesting thing is that all exercises avoid Area 51 which is located right at the center of everything.
UFO – Aren't there any incidents of pilots trespassing those borders?
Pereira – Yes. The biggest problem is to make foreign pilots understand the procedures to be followed. Not even US nationals are allowed to fly over that space.
UFO – Considering the circumstances involving traffic hotel occurrences and the interference some have caused in civil and military flights, do you believe there is any risk for our aircraft?
Pereira – We had no reports of collision so far. At least we haven't heard of any pilots reporting this kind of danger in specific forms [This one is different from the one used for hotel traffic].
UFO – Don't you think this might have happened without being registered?
Pereira – Yes. Because pilots and controllers must prepare a danger report on any situation of flight risk. Then they have to sign it and make themselves known before the situation is investigated. It doesn't mean it never occurred, it's just that I've never heard of that.
UFO – Do you think Brazilian government and the military consider “hotel traffic” as a menace to the national security?
Pereira – This is difficult to tell because in practice national security has different approaches. An “external menace” – I use quotation marks because I don't think any of us feel threatened by extraterrestrials – cannot be considered by a single country but for a group of them. From the moment one accepts that something is coming from space I think the United Nations will take a position and not countries alone. That won't be a measure from the US, Uruguay or Afghanistan alone. This is a very complex issue and I don't see any threat to security. But in case we are dealing with this maybe we'll have military information that cannot be disclosed such as the establishment and frequency of our radars, the speed of our jets against invaders, etc. These are military secret information that has nothing to do with the phenomenon itself. And during a UFO research, maybe some military data contained in the situation may prevent the whole thing to be disclosed. This is a standard procedure all over the world, when you block one thing in the operation, then everything is blocked.
UFO – Do you know the NPA-09, a document issued on August 20th 1990 entitled Procedures to be Followed by ATS/ATC Bodies in Case of UFO Sightings? Is it still in force?
Pereira – If no other document was prepared to replace it, then it is still in force. I'm not really sure, but if this is from 1990 then it's probably still in force. But this is a confidential document for the use of the Armed Forces. The NPA-09 determines that UFO occurrences must be entered in a book specific for this purpose (LRO). The occurrences must be entered in chronological order and including the time of the occurrence when possible. These are routine procedures.
UFO – This document NPA-09 contains an item (4.7) in the section entitled General Instructions, which reads: “In case the press or any other people request for information the answer shall be 'we are not authorized to comment on that'”. Why not answering to ufologists and the press? Wouldn't it be more transparent to answer to ufologists in a serious manner?
Pereira – I'm not for this, but controversial issues must be handled with care. In general, they are not authorized, but this is not only for military issues. Do you remember the subway accident in São Paulo last year (2007)? Everybody started to call and the response was “we are not authorized to comment on that”. This is to avoid disputes among different press agencies. Try talking to Folha de Sao Paulo and not to O Globo newspapers or vice-versa. You'll become an enemy to one of them. So the Armed Forces and the government normally try to keep distance from these press war.
UFO – What would be the best way to find access to the information NPA-09 intends to keep secret?
Pereira – The best way in this and other cases is to call for a press conference. Then any agency that wants information can send their journalists to make questions. Another way to handle a big request for information is to issue a press release. This is the standard recommendation.
UFO – Scientists accuse Ufology of lack of evidence. Let's suppose we can prove in little time that beings from other planets are visiting Earth. Would you expect any social impact at scientific, religious, economic or cultural levels?
Pereira – I have no doubt about that. In case that occurs many things would have to be reviewed.
UFO – Do you know if Brazil works or have worked together with other countries in UFO matters?
Pereira – Not anymore, but in the past we used to deal with the US. This is not like this anymore.
UFO – During Operação Prato some people said that it was terminated due to advise from the US who was receiving information on the operation's results. Is it true?
Pereira – It's very likely to be true. The US used to enter into every issue those days. They even wanted to advise us on that.
UFO – Have Americans ever recommended measures to be taken by Brazilians regarding UFOs spotted by radars or interceptions made by jets?
Pereira – No, never. But there's indeed a spontaneous exchange of information with other countries. There is an organization called System for Cooperation of American Air Forces (Sicofaa). They meet once a year in one of the member states to discuss everything from hygiene issues to fighting drug dealing. At Sicofaa – which has a proper communication system – issues are dealt with by commanders. A Brazilian Air Force commander, for example, can reach his US or any other counterpart directly. At Sicofaa there is total freedom to speak on any subject [Brazilian Air Force website informs that Sicofaa was created in 1961 in order to promote and strengthen mutual friendship and support among Air Forces of member states].
UFO – “Any subject” including flying saucers?
Pereira – Yes. I believe today even flying saucers can be discussed in that environment and not only among commanders. That body has many different commissions such as flight security, logistics, whatever. That's a fabulous initiative which is not affected by diplomatic issues. For example, the recent dispute among Colombia, Ecuador, and Venezuela had no effect on the system [Colombia allegedly attacked a Farc camp in Ecuador supposedly supported by Ecuador and Venezuela]. Presidents and politicians cursed one another in those countries, but military at Sicofaa were very professional and reasonable in dealing with this subject. That's the purpose of this body which I consider a kind of security against the war. Everybody thinks military want to go to war when the truth is the opposite. Military hate war because they should be the first to die. So, while presidents accuse one another, the military are actually working for peace through Sicofaa.
UFO – On that night of May 19th 1986, the so-called “Official UFOs Night in Brazil”, did the military consider those facts as extremely serious?
Pereira – Sure. There was an array of UFOs spotted and the whole defense system was put on alert. Colonel Ozires Silva was flying a Xingu near Poços de Caldas (MG) heading to Sao Jose dos Campos (SP) when radars showed 21 UFOs on many different locations from Sao Paulo to Rio de Janeiro including parts of Goias and Minas Gerais.
UFO – At the occasion, we had the minister of aeronautics, Brigadier Octavio Moreira Lima, on TV talking about that. He also authorized pilots and controllers to talk about the issue without any reserve.
Pereira – Yes. They gave a press conference. But the minister made a mistake by promising an official report to be released within the next 30 days. This was never done.
UFO – Never released, but the report was really prepared. The decision to release it, however, was changed. But some information contained in it leaked such as the number [21] of UFOs of 100m diameter each.
Pereira – That's true. The report would be made because the jets took off. Every time planes take off in an unusual situation the Air Force has to prepare a report and this is what happened. I've never heard of it, but it was certainly produced and for some reason the minister changed his mind about disclosing it.
UFO – We heard of it through a pilot of the Presidency of the Republic who saw it and told us some details. Were there any rumors about the report among the military?
Pereira – Let's get back to that initial point. Did that happen? Yes. Did pilots see it? Yes. Did radars spot it? Yes. Did Ozires see it? Yes. Did pilots in commercial planes see it? Yes. Does time of sightings match? Yes. Does trajectory of objects match? Yes. All this was technically analyzed. So, did that happen? Yes, it did happen. One of the most important things is that everything was spotted by the aircraft radars. And the main confirmation is when we have radars spotting objects simultaneously in the air and on the ground. Radars of aircraft operate in microwave band which is very narrow, while radars on the ground operate in a much broader band So there's no risk of confusion or mistake. Then we come to the question “What were those objects?”. No one knows. If those were not foreign jets attacking...
UFO – So they were unidentified flying objects, flying saucers?
Pereira – Yes. Unidentified flying objects.
UFO – Some ufologists call that an invasion due to the significant number and size of the objects. What did it represent to the military? Didn't it raise any fear or alert?
Pereira – No, no. Maybe the military think in a different way. What did they say that time? They admitted the fact, but what was the air defense response? Jets took off and reached the objects in less than two minutes. Were they armed with missiles? Yes they were.
UFO – Were they armed for any special reason or is it the standard procedure?
Pereira – That's normal. They are always armed, but with peace-time armament, that is, two missiles, small thing. Pilots had the proper training and radars entered maximum capacity which normally doesn't happen. Radars never operate at full capacity in order to save energy and to spare the device itself. We normally keep them working at 70% or 80% of their capacity. But after the jets took off the capacity was increased to a broader range. All the military regulations were observed. We did our job because this is the way military think. No communication has failed, the jets landed safe and pilots came back unharmed. Mission accomplished! When a general loses a war he asks to himself: “Where did I go wrong?”. He never says the enemy was more intelligent, but that he was stronger, that's all. I remember that time that our concern was to know if we did our part. Otherwise we'd be asking “Where did we go wrong?”
UFO – So why wasn't that report released?
Pereira – Probably because of some political reason or fear of panic. That time the idea was that the population would panic if they knew.
UFO – And wasn't there any further interest among the military and the government on that invasion?
Pereira – No. I can assure you that we've never had this feeling. We only had the feeling that we had done our part. We also felt we haven't failed in our response. If those objects were from an enemy country, they'd have been crushed that night. It's very important to hold the enemy's first attempt so that we have time to prepare for a second charge, but that was not the case. The country wasn't suffering any threat at all.
UFO – Over the three last decades many countries have admitted that UFOs are real and represent intelligent life visiting our planet. First was France in 1976, who has just published 100 thousand documents on the Internet. Then it was Uruguay in 1979 and Chile in 1997. Recently Peru and Ecuador did the same. What do you think of this?
Pereira – I think this is a pragmatic measure towards real facts. None of the countries you've mentioned is irresponsible. They are all serious nations and have different levels of development. And when serious countries admit something, they must be taken into consideration. As sovereign nations they were never forced to do that and the international community must recognize this.
UFO – Belgium, Spain, China, Russia - still in communist times - and Mexico in 2005 may do the same. Most of them took that position after a significant sighting within their boundaries. In Chile occurrences were in Deserto do Atacama, Punta Arenas, and Santiago. Peru had a UFO wave some years ago which affected also Lima. Uruguay had several cases even in Montevideo. Don't you think the Brazilian UFO Official Night in 1986 should have triggered a similar attitude?
Pereira – This takes us back to initial questions. When we can't explain something, it goes to the files. It seems in those countries they didn't have the explanation but their decision was different, they decided to admit the existence of something even though they couldn't explain that. That's what they did. Instead of archiving the facts they admitted their existence. The question now is what were those things...
UFO – Brazilian closest neighbor to admit UFOs existence is Uruguay (since 1979). They have established a Committee for UFO Report and Investigation (Cridovni) within their Air Force. Has Brazil ever exchanged information on UFOs with that country?
Pereira – Not that I know. The only exchange was with the US during the Cold War era because the US used to force themselves into every issue.
UFO – But if that exchange occurred only during the Cold War how could US military and even physicians be present in Case Varginha occurred in 1996? We know they were there taking part in many maneuvers resulting in the shipment of UFO's wreckage and its crew bodies to the US. This was 16 years after the end of the Cold War.
Pereira – Look, when I talk about Cold War, I mean official contact from government to government in a higher level. But in specific issues things are different. US nationals work in other countries when there is something they want to know. And all countries do the same. This can be done in a diplomatic scope.
UFO – We had a strange coincidence few weeks after Case Varginha: NASA director Daniel Goldin came to Brazil. Brazilian and US space agencies signed an agreement for space cooperation. Ufologists say this was only an excuse to cover-up US participation in that story...
Pereira – This is what we call “Operation Umbrella”, because after that we are covered against any bad weather.
UFO – You are right, but we were lucky that Brazilian ufologists could collect valuable information on the case before the military could launch their cover-up operations. Fortunately, Ubirajara Franco Rodrigues, one of the most serious Brazilian researcher, lived very near the place where ETs were seen and captured. He was quick enough to start researching immediately and called other ufologists who could visit the city in the following days. Did you follow this case?
Pereira – This is the story I know the least. All that I know I got from the ordinary press which is not very reliable because it is somewhat censored. Revista UFO has no censorship, but newspapers like O Globo, A Folha de São Paulo, and O Estado de Minas have. Many things [about Varginha] are still ignored also because the press had no access to the information. There's one more thing: the editor of a newspaper first analyzes which news will sell or not, then they decide on what to publish.
UFO – That's true. Nothing was published about Varginha by the US ordinary press that time.
Pereira – As I told you, the US force themselves into everything. It seems they want a world and ideological war. There's always a US ambassador giving opinions on the country where he is serving. They expressed opinions on that recent immigration issue between Brazil and Spain. What do they have to do with that? Nothing. And still they want to take part. But they are right and we are wrong. We should also force ourselves into everything.
UFO – Brigadier, do you think Brazil could take the same attitude as those countries which admit the existence of UFOs and the need to investigate them? Do you think we have a favorable environment to disclose secret documents?
Pereira – In my opinion we have the most favorable environment here to open our files! I even think the population is eager for transparency including on ufological issues. Brazil lives a very unusual moment with all these federal police operations. Everything is being put very clear. Now we have all ministers' personal expenses made public. You can find through the Internet whatever they spent with their official cards.
UFO – Despite that, ufological files are kept inaccessible to Brazilian citizens...
Pereira – Yes. And could we trust a country like this?! There is much more secret in ministers' personal affairs than in UFO issues and the first were all openly published. That minister's private expenses shocked the whole country while Ufology can't cause any damage but raise a serious scientific interest. I mean, there must be transparency. There is no reason to keep on hiding things. But it goes a long way to officially accepting UFOs existence like France did. And the first step towards that is transparency. People will never believe files while they are still kept secret.
UFO – So you think that if they were disclosed...
Pereira – This would be the first step for us to advance. I don't believe people would panic if these files are opened. This (panic) would never happen. If there's a country that never panics this is Brazil. Maybe we'll even have a samba theme in celebration [laughter].
UFO – If you were asked by the government or the military would you go for the disclosure of files?
Pereira – Absolutely! I'll be for the opening of all files safeguarding those four restrictions I've already mentioned. First we have to protect the privacy of people mentioned in the documents. Second, we can not disclose things that could generate panic or cause damage to the population. Third, it's crucial to safeguard secrets that could trigger diplomatic, military, strategic or economic problems. And fourth, we need to protect the country's military, economic, and strategic secrets which could put the country in a vulnerable position against competitors or depreciate our currency. If we have none of these obstacles, then we should disclose everything. I believe ufological issues don't fit into any of these restrictions. That means we have no reason to keep it secret.
UFO – Don't you think that in case Brazilian military want to disclose the subject some international powers – especially the US – might go against it?
Pereira – No, absolutely not. I don't think so.
UFO – Or maybe this is not a priority to the Brazilian government so they prefer not to do anything about it?
Pereira – Maybe due to a cultural reason. “Why should we go over this?”, the government may think. There is also Brazilian traditional bureaucratic problems. Bureaucrats don't want to change anything. “Is it worth the change?”, they may ask. No, so let's forget it. This impairs the development of the nation because forgetting ufological files means forgetting many other things that could be made public.
UFO – You are aware of the campaign for freedom of information which resulted in the first official meeting involving the Air Force and researchers of the Brazilian Ufologists Committee (CBU). We were received at Cindacta and Comdabra by many officials including Major Antonio Lorenzo, spokesman of that body, and Brigadiers Telles Ribeiro and Atheneu Azambuja. They all assured us that the Air Force commanders had given orders for them to show everything. However, only a few doors were opened and only three files were just partially shown. It seems the Air Force meant only to appease us. Did we have the right impression?
Pereira – First let me tell you that Lorenzo is a great public relations officer. Now, I don't know if that is the right impression. But I assure you that my position is for the full opening of all files without any pre-analysis because there's nothing else to analyze anymore. But how to interpret the documents and how to direct the independent investigation is another thing. Anyway, I think that after the opening, UFO issues won't belong only to ufologists anymore. It must be engaged by the whole nation, not only ufologists. Who are the most interested parties? Astrophysicists, astronomers, geologists, aviators, meteorologists, etc.
UFO – How do you imagine this opening? I believe the military won't simply call ufologists and deliver us all the materials...
Pereira – I think they would make everything available at the National Archive. This is the best way of doing that [Created in 1838, this is a central body of the System for Management of Documents of the Brazilian Archive, an integral part of the Civil Affairs Ministry].
UFO – During our visit to Comdabra we delivered three letters to Brigadier Telles Ribeiro. One was addressed to Aeronautics commander, another to the minister of defense and the last one to president Da Silva. We were requesting the opening of UFO files and the establishment of a mixed committee of ufologists and military maybe including scientists in order to research UFOs. If the committee is really established, would you accept an invitation to take part?
Pereira – If it were a non-governmental committee I would take part as a citizen, a collaborator. I do stress it must be a non-governmental one otherwise it would be a waste. Unfortunately that time when you visited Comdabra was not appropriate to a request for the establishment of a committee. That historical moment didn't allow for that. Now we live a different moment. I wouldn't say it's an extraordinary one, but it's really much better than before. Nowadays “transparency” and “disclosure” are fashionable words because of recent scandals in politics, in those times they were not.
UFO – Do you know any other high rank official who has the same opinion as yours and could support our campaign?
Pereira – Well, everyone is afraid of talking. Military in service may think about it, but they will never speak. Those retired do speak, however. I will talk to some colleagues to see how they feel about all this [He mentioned two officials of the Air Defense System - one in service, another retired -, but their names are safeguarded until they are contacted. One of them allegedly had a very significant experience with UFOs].
UFO – At the first time we met at Comdabra, on May 20th 2005, we gave you some magazines and you said you were already a reader. Are you still our reader?
Pereira – Yes. I buy the magazines from newsstands at the airport or bus station in Brasilia. It's been some time since I don't get a new one, but I always read it. Sometimes it's not easy to find it at the newsstands. It seems more people appreciate it.
UFO – We have two invitations to you. First we would like to invite you for a conference at the 36° Brazilian Congress of Scientific Ufology to be held from 22nd to 25th May in Curitiba.
Pereira – Of course. I thank you for the invitation. I'll do my best to be there.
UFO – Second, would you accept an invitation to take part in an international body of civil and military personalities from different countries that occasionally meet in Washington in order to request governments to open their files?
Pereira – Well, I'm not sure about that now. But I can assure you I'll be in Curitiba.
UFO – Lastly, will you keep on reading Revista UFO?
Pereira – Of course. Revista UFO is the reference on Ufology here in Brazil.
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Last Sunday, October 25th, Brazilian UFO Magazine interviewed the former minister of Air Force during the government of Fernando Collor, from 1990-1992, lieutenant-brigadier Sócrates da Costa Monteiro. The interview was conducted in his residence in Rio de Janeiro and was performed by this editor A. J. Gevaerd, with the cooperation of the co-editor Marco Antonio Petit and the consultants Francisco Pires de Campos and Arthur Ferreira Neto. It was more than two hours of extremely interesting and fruitful conversation, in which the military felt comfortable to talk about Ufology, like some other officials who also gave their statements to Brazilian UFO Magazine.
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