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The Dulce Interview: Retired USAF Colonel Confirms Secret Military Installation at Dulce
By Anthony Sanchez
www.ufohighway.com
7-22-10
Note: The following is an excerpt of the author's upcoming book-FW
HOAX UPDATE
3-3-11
Since the publication of this article, Anthony Sanchez has published and offers for sale a PDF file entitled, UFO Highway; within the pages (originally) is a copy of a DD-214 allegedly belonging to "Colonel X"; a copy of said doc was faxed to the The National Personnel Records Center (NPRC) in St Louis where Sanchez claimed to have obtained the DD-214 via a FOIA request–they stated emphatically that the document was BOGUS (their word).
This interview was held at a private residence in Placer County, CA. on January 6th, 2010 conducted by researcher Anthony F. Sanchez, with a retired USAF Colonel to recall the events surrounding a classified 1979 incident which took place at Dulce, NM. This includes details involving (Colonel X) who was assigned to Dulce as part of a special Medical Detachment where he learned the history and circumstances surrounding the 1940 Dulce Discovery event; a harrowing event, as claimed by the Colonel, filled with many intriguing details, which have never been revealed to the public before. Because of the enigmatic nature surrounding the UFO phenomenon and how it typically negatively affects those who come forth with disclosure, my source, (Colonel X), has requested anonymity.
Therefore, I have obtained the information from (Colonel X) with assurance that his name would not be divulged under any set of circumstances, or until such time that I am given permission to do so. His military record, academic credentials and current work as a professor in Northern California have been vetted and deemed completely legitimate.
On January 8th, 2010 (Colonel X) submitted to two tests by a certified forensic polygraph examiner. I specifically chose an examiner who knew nothing of the case as to prevent him from later remembering or identifying my source who requests total anonymity.
I personally structured all the questions (outside the innocuous), ensuring that we conceal the secretive nature of the ‘story’ away from the polygraph examiner. Also, the name of the subject was never given to the examiner, nor was his name asked during the exam. Again, this allowed us to retain anonymity of (Colonel X). But all questions were accordant to the Colonel’s understanding in that they reflected his direct involvement at Dulce. He passed two independent examinations.
The forensic Polygraph Examiner can 'possibly' reveal the identity of (Colonel X); as such, he was never made aware of the significance of Dulce or the reason for the exam. His selection (the examiner) was made after meeting specific criteria, ensuring prevention of leaks from discovery of the story’s premise. Therefore I will not divulge the name of the examiner used, except for revealing that he is a retired law enforcement officer and now a private investigator, also from Northern California.
All the accounts mentioned in this interview are real. There are no fictional characters, and each of these events happened exactly as I have written them based on the personal testimony provided by (Colonel X), the only known speaking 'first-hand witness' to events at Dulce.
And more than anyone else, I am still surprised as I am grateful, for this interview held with the Colonel. I firmly believe that his testimony will be the catalyst to the exposure of what really is happening beneath the Mesa at Dulce NM, and how it affects all of us.
January 6th 2010, 9:00 A.M. (PST)
Colonel’s Private Residence
Sierra Nevada Region, Placer County, CA
A.S.: Colonel, what are you doing today; are you still involved with the Military?
C.X.: No, after leaving the Air Force I went back to school and earned two post graduate degrees in Psychology. Today I teach graduate students at a college right here in Northern California. I’m still happily married and have three children. All three are grown now and doing quite well on their own, and I am very thankful they live close by.
A.S.: So you live a pretty normal life, was it always this way?
C.X.: No it wasn’t, and I guess that’s why we are here to talk.
During the latter half of my military career while I was still a Major with the U.S. Air Force I can remember how arduously hard I worked towards a promotion to Lieutenant Colonel. That’s all I wanted ... Anyhow, at about that time everything about my career was quite normal, proceeding quite well.
I was stationed out of McClellan Air Force Base near Sacramento, CA. assigned to a Medical Detachment specializing in an area of Psychiatric and Behavioral Studies for both the USAF (and occasionally the Central Intelligence Agency), typically my work involved trips to locations on joint Air Force-CIA special projects. I know that might sound surprising, but it’s accurate.
However, any normalcy in my life ended at about that time; everything I knew would change for many years to come. It began after I received orders to report to Edwards AFB, from there I would fly on a special assignment to conduct interviews at a secret installation in Dulce, NM. That was all I knew about the assignment.
I remember thinking to myself, “Where in the world was Dulce?” For one, I had never heard of the place. Secondly, and to the best of my knowledge, I was certain that none of the people I had served with knew of Dulce, either. It had never been mentioned before and was never on any list of installations that I had reported to.
The orders informed me that I was to adhere to strict protocol under our classified guidelines, as this was a top secret assignment. This was nothing new for me, my specialty detachment typically operated at various levels of classification, so our regular operating protocol was to always treat each new job with a standard compartmentalized approach.
I had been assigned on many top secret projects before, and in fact, the year before the Dulce assignment I had been on one particular job having to do with a recovery mission from a crash site located near Fort Irwin down south. A USAF C-130E Hercules with six men aboard had nearly collided several times with an object of unknown origin traveling at a super high rate of speed estimated at 1500-2000 miles per hour.
The survivors said the unidentified object appeared to be tracking them, almost playing with them, coming closer with each pass. One man reported that a deafening high-pitch sound penetrated the plane's walls, drowning out the aircraft's own engine noise, causing them painful headaches. By the final pass from the object, the C-130E immediately began to stall, ultimately crashing. Two men died.
This is what I did; what my detachment was for ... Our team reported to these types of incidents, and they happened more often than you would think.
My role was to assist with physical and psychiatric evaluations of any surviving personnel. Mainly what we would do was conduct an initial, that's medical lingo for a first interview with the patient, and then we'd investigate and document the investigation, all aspects. In some cases we'd facilitate triage if necessary and then conduct exit interviews before submitting our final report.
In any event, we never were sure as to what the entire nature of the Irwin incident was; however, one man we evaluated had been subjected to something so severe during the incident that eventually he had to be discharged, medically for mental instability.
And whatever it was they saw out there, was definitely traumatic enough to make them succumb to an arbitrary psychological condition causing both paranoia and terror. It was pretty severe.
I know you want to talk about Dulce, but it’s important that I mention this event, in addition to other areas of my work, because it's what prepared me for Dulce, and with a great level of relevance. You can be certain of it.
A.S.: Do you mean, relevant to your work?
C.X.: Exactly ... This assignment was something that caught me completely off guard. Something I don’t think I was prepared for ... even if the Air Force felt that I was.
I don’t know who recommended me, but I noticed that the two most qualified people in my area of expertise were pooled together for this assignment, me being one of them. Usually when on assignment we operated in a team of four to six people per detachment, but this time it was to be just three of us. Later a fourth would be added, but not in our field of expertise.
What I immediately can recall was that upon first reaching the entrance to the Dulce Installation was that it appeared to be eerily similar in design to that of Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station (NORAD) where I had been stationed twice before, except the entrance was half the size.
If you were flying above this place at any distance greater than a few hundred feet, you would never know it was there. Only by landing directly near the front gate on a obscure landing pad could you see the entrance. It was very clever how they used the desert land-cover to conceal the entrance. Only by coordinates could you find it.
A.S.: Colonel, I hate to do this … but before going into detail about Dulce can you briefly describe your work at Cheyenne Mountain?
C.X.: Well … before joining and starting OTS at Lackland, I had already earned my Bachelor of Science in Psychology. Back then I had often pondered about one day earning an M.D. in Psychiatry, but once I was fully entrenched, I was too busy; and the travel involved quelled any ideas for additional higher education. Plus, Basic Officer Training had been tough enough.
So, at that time an M.D. was simply out of the question until after my military career was over, possibly. But wouldn’t you know it, I chose to forgo an M.D. in Psychiatry and decided that teaching Psychology would be a much more relaxing and rewarding career path for me after the military. And it is.
Anyhow, during my time with the Air Force I was selected for assignment with a classified medical detachment, as you know already. How we operated was simple, we specialized in performing a battery of psychological and behavioral evaluations of military personnel (from any branch) in two manners of protocol. One scenario would be to conduct psychological assessments of personnel after ‘Type-X events’, and in the other scenario, we would be called to evaluate potential candidates prior to consideration for any ‘special assignment’ that involved a unique set of circumstances, through both psychological and behavioral assessment.
A Type-X event or incident involves a death or accident caused by unknown phenomena. These events are classified, usually falling under some umbrella of secrecy; the very reason why my unit was created.
A.S.: Was it normal for your detachment to work at places like Cheyenne?
C.X.: Oh yes, at Cheyenne there was regular evaluation required for any potential long-term personnel slated for work at the installation. This was to help identify and combat the affects of working in various levels of prolonged confinement, especially within a deeply embedded or subterranean environment.
As you probably know, central operations at Cheyenne are housed at approximately 600 meters within the mountain and there are various levels of ranging depths to other key operating areas below the mountain’s base.
It was quite common to encounter new people who had reservations over working these assignments, but to the military … if these people were selected at the ‘top’ of their grade and ‘qualified’ with a specific specialization meeting certain requirements … well then, they had to be evaluated, and in rare cases (convinced) to perform their job.
This could be done either through psychiatric sessions, or by medicating, or both.
A.S.: Very interesting, are you saying that many people at NORAD are medicated?
C.X.: Oh no ... not at all. With about 1500 personnel operating the base at any one time, you maybe had 3-5 people with simple diagnoses such as low-level claustrophobic anxiety, the most common in these environments. But if we ever suspected that someone possessed a high-level or an acute claustrophobic or taphephobic anxiety … there was no way in ‘hell’ they would be permitted to operate there.
A.S.: Taphephobic?
C.X.: ‘Taphephobic’ is the fear of being buried alive. Anyhow, these situations would require too much physician interaction and the potential for bad effects from medicating, which would not be conducive to facilitating a successful work environment, for anyone.
No, anyone found to be suffering from any acute psychological condition as a result of the environment, was simply re-assigned. The work was the same every where I went on these assignments … except for at the Dulce installation.
A.S. :How was Dulce different?
C.X.: At first it was because of circumstance. My assignment was always the same: you conduct an investigation, perform psychological analyses of all the personnel involved, and then submit a final report to the commanding officer, but I had never had been asked to conduct a full investigation, in charge. Such an important task was usually reserved for assignment to a Lieutenant Colonel, someone generally at a director of operations level. At the time I was just a Major.
[End of excerpt...]
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Labels: Article, By Anthony Sanchez, Dulce, Hoax, New Mexico
posted by THE UFO CHRONICLES at 12:01 AM
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12 Comments:
I'm sorry, I have a hard time taking alot of stories like this seriously and this article doesn't help. It did a good job hooking me with a story, the abruptly ends, urging me to read the rest of the story in a book. To me, this just seems like a gimmick to sell more copies instead of getting the "truth" to the public. When money is a motivating factor in issues such as this, I have a hard time taking them seriously.
The interview is cut so short, there isn't enough to make me want to spend any money on the book. It sounds like the interview goes no where so why would I bother?
These interview are useless. There is one new anonymous UFO whistle blower every week and the idea that they will get in trouble is a fallacy. June Crain worked at Write field. She came out publicly and nothing happened. The idea of a book also clouds the message. No one has every been prosecuted for reveling secrets about UFOs. So for me thank you I wouldn't waste my money. IF this person really cares and is not doing if for the money let him come forward like June did who's is a real hero to the truth. I am sure there are those in the UFO community that will bye this book. But for me it is time to stop making money on UFO interviews.
Joe Capp
UFO Media Matters
Non-Commercial Blog
Fantasy. Incredible. First of all, officers involved in Top Secret operations carry their knowledge to the grave (unless info is unclassified--that this apparently is not). The mythical Colonel X could be readily identified (if he existed) from the data provided, and media follow-up would be evident.
Military officers are always subject to recall and prosecution for unauthorized disclosures, that probably is reason enough to discredit this piece.
(I was a USAF Major, too.)
Incidentally, no one who works for or with CIA wants the fact known.
I have no problem with someone selling books, or "making money" off interviews....so what. We all have to survive and doing what it takes or what we love to do ie writing- it makes sense. I hear this argument over and over again and it doesn't hold water. Just because someone is ultimately selling something, it just doesn't make their product or book invalid. You go Anthony- and good luck- Can't wait for the book to come out.
Although I appreciate the author making this information available to the public, there are several problems which work together to create a negative perception of both the author and his article. First, in cutting the interview so short the author and/or publisher of this website give readers little incentive to secure for themselves a copy of the book in question. The information presented is insufficient to generate the desired level of interest, and unfortunately, may prove counter-productive to the goal of selling books. Second, including a picture of the author wearing a suit with sunglasses on his forehead creates a flashy image inappropriate for a reporter seeking to establish his credibility. Such use of fashion accessories suggests that the author is too overly concerned with projecting a "cool" image to be taken seriously. Finally, it's silly to make such a big deal over keeping Colonel X's identity a secret when the information provided in the interview all but gives his identity away. How many ex-Air Force colonels are psychology professors in the Nor Cal area? My guess is not too many! In any event, it's an intriguing article, but very much in need of a re-write. - Michael K.
When was the last time anyone who came out from the military who had personal testimony of UFOs been tried or arrested. Let's get real. The last thing the government does when it is UFO is bother. Hiding the truth about UFOs or possibly ETs by attacking those people who come forward with no real proof would be the height stupidity . So all this cloak and dagger stuff is not part of real UFO history.
I don't have a problem with a book either but let him do it in public so his testimony can investigated by other in our community.
Joe Capp
UFO Media Matters
These clownish gimmicks for book sales are just another reason why so few people take the community seriously.
I felt at the end of reading I wasted my time, like there was not enough to tell me anything here that actually made me want to read the book, bad Idea on the marketing attempt. I should have stayed on the coast to coast site where this came up on.
Greetings All,
Thank you for taking time to make comment.
Regarding the truncated version of the interview: let me make it clear that "I asked researcher Anthony Sanchez" to publish said interview; he did not approach me! He had the (truncated) interview on his web-site "briefly," and I was able to read it; I thought the interview with "Colonel X" interesting, irregardless of the fact that it wasn't complete. I asked and received his permission to publish said piece.
As a "courtesy to him" for allowing me to publish the piece, I put up the blurb about his upcoming book, as I do all for all of our contributors who have penned recent tomes, or if one is about to come out.
Here at The UFO Chronicles our mission statement is to "collect, collate, evaluate, and disseminate all information concerning UFOs and related phenomenon," the a fore published (truncated) interview, along with Sanchez' investigation into Dulce falls under that purview.
Cheers,
Frank
Editor/Publisher - The UFO Chronicles
Good Day Joe,
Thank you for taking time to make comment.
(Please e-mail me; scroll all the way down left hand column to get the address).
You wrote:
These interview are useless. There is one new anonymous UFO whistle blower every week and the idea that they will get in trouble is a fallacy.
I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree: I have been interviewing witnesses since the early '70's and "the majority" preferred not to have their names used--out of those the bulk certainly wasn't "useless."
As the publisher/editor of TUC, I receive UFO reports of some sort frequently, and again--the majority don't want their respective names used. Additionally, the witness "isn't anonymous," his identity is being protected by Sanchez.
Re "getting into trouble": the laws that were established in the early '50's (to the best of my knowledge) are still in place today (in some form or fashion), for example:
UNITED STATES COMMUNICATIONS INSTRUCTIONS FOR REPORTING VITAL INTELLIGENCE SIGHTINGS (CIRVIS/MERINT)
SECTION III - SECURITY
208. Military and Civilian. Transmission of CIRVIS reports are subject to the U.S. Communications Act of 1934, as amended, and the Canadian Radio Act of 1938, as amended. Any person who violates the provisions of these acts may be liable to prosecution thereunder. These reports contain information affecting the national defense of the United States and Canada. Any person who makes an unauthorized transmission or disclosure of such a report may be liable to prosecution under Title 18 of the US Code 793, Chapter 37, or the Canadian Official Secrets {|}
Act of 1939, as amended. This should not be construed as requiring classification of CIRVIS {|}
messages. The purpose is to emphasize the necessity for the handling of such information within official channels only.
b. Disciplinary Action. Violations of or failure to observe the provisions of security regulations be treated under disciplinary procedures authorized by law and prescribed in applicable regulations. The unauthorized disclosure of classified information by any individual, including key civilian executives and military personnel regardless of grade or position, may result in dismissal or prosecution under law, in the case of civilians, or trial by court martial in the case of military personnel.
b. Military commands and activities in making local distribution Of MERINT reports and in subsequent communications regarding the contents of any MERINT report shall handle such communications in accordance with current security regulations.
You wrote:
IF this person really cares and is not doing if for the money let him come forward like June did who's is a real hero to the truth. I am sure there are those in the UFO community that will bye this book. But for me it is time to stop making money on UFO interviews.
The witness in question (to the best of my knowledge) hasn't been paid, and won't be in the future. Moreover, UFO books as a rule--don't make money; most authors are fortunate to break even. Additionally, Anthony has BSc. in Computer Information Systems from Western Governors University of Salt Lake City, UT in 2008. In addition to being a Software Consultant for the State of California through his own company, Matrix Innovative Systems Inc., Anthony has been employed for 16 years as a Software Engineer working for 3Com, Intel, Acer, Netscape Communications, and Hewlett Packard performing high level software development supporting scientific engineering and business intelligence projects. In short, he is intelligent, educated and does well for himself--the notion of his motives being solely for profit just doesn't apply.
Cheers,
Frank
Editor/Publisher - The UFO Chronicles
There were very many in the USAF who had experiences. My uncle who was a bird Colonel (fouht in WW2-Pilot 30 bombing missions over occupied Europe-, Korea and Vietnam)told me that almost everyone in the USAF knew a pilot, crewman, radar operator or controller who had had UFO experiences. He told me he knew several . Additionally, he had indirect ties with Blue Book (between Korea and Vietnam)and first heard about unidentified phenomena as early as 1944. He said that if one percent of reports, sightings etc were valid it was the single most important development in the history of the human race. He knew UFOs were real but he also knew if that word appeared on your USAF record your career path stopped.He told me there was always someone "around" who had had an experience and would talk to friends, even superiors about it but would never "go on record".
He did tell me also that "he had heard" of USAF personnel being hospitalized as well as "retired" and then hospitalized, after experiencing a contact.Some who were combat veterans.
All this to say that what the author describes does not sound too far fetched to me. I am only conveying what I was told...he would never go into specific detail, not even as a civilian....nor would he talk about his combat experiences except to tell me Vietnam was the worse for him....dropping young men off the same age as his sons and a month or whatever later picking them up in a bag. He also resented that the military was not allowed to win that war.
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Dear Contributor,
Your comments are greatly appreciated, and coveted; however, blatant mis-use of this site's bandwidth will not be tolerated (e.g., SPAM etc).
Additionally, healthy debate is invited; however, ad hominem and or vitriolic attacks will not be published. Please keep your arguments "to the issues" and present them with civility and proper decorum-FW